A study to share

A meeting place for rose breeders.
Post Reply
pacificjade
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:15 am

A study to share

Post: # 74283Post pacificjade
Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:07 pm

https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l. ... 69.0&tab=1

I put this one on HelpMeFind to serve as a complex example as to how easily traits are gained, lost, gained, and lost (etc.), as well as how transformative they can be.

roseseek
Posts: 5396
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: A study to share

Post: # 74284Post roseseek
Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:26 am

Very interesting, Michael! Thank you. It appears to have quite nice foliage, too!
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

pacificjade
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:15 am

Re: A study to share

Post: # 74285Post pacificjade
Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:10 am

[quote=roseseek post_id=74284 time=1650608780 user_id=1170]
Very interesting, Michael! Thank you. It appears to have quite nice foliage, too!
[/quote]

Thanks, Kim.

I still remember the day Paul gave me a little runt of a plant that I decided to save genetically for him. He also gave me, iirc, a Trier/0-47-19, I grew it out for two years, and then destroyed it. It behaved too much like Rosa multiflora in its ferocity and seed set, and I felt it could endanger the PNW temperate rainforest ecosystem like Rosa multiflora has.

With the linked seedling, the quartering is interesting. I have had the same type of quartering in descendants of wichurana but removed enough for it to be a typical modern. This seems to trend similarly in some other synstylae descendants. Even 'Lullaby' is similar, although with less pronounced quartering. I think the take home this is for breeders is that "OGR form" or quartering can be accomplished without wrestling with OGR or Austin/English reproduced roses.

roseseek
Posts: 5396
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: A study to share

Post: # 74286Post roseseek
Fri Apr 22, 2022 12:13 pm

Agreed, Michael. All you need to see is the flowers of Wichurana ramblers from the end of the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries to figure that out. It honestly isn't surprising Paul was able to mine Mel's Heritage from 0-47-19. I guess it's a bit surprising it was with Crepuscule but not from 0-47-19. Wichurana is also very willing to transmit cresting and mossing, FWIW.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

pacificjade
Posts: 863
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:15 am

Re: A study to share

Post: # 74289Post pacificjade
Fri Apr 22, 2022 9:20 pm

Interesting!

I noticed 'Alchymist' is being posted a lot this week on HMF, and there we have the quartering again with no apparent OGR source (although one source is unknown).

Quartered form is favored commercially these days. Sometimes more than classic spiral form. I enjoy most forms, but from a breeders point of view, I felt it is worth mentioning. A lot of OGR crosses into moderns tend to make monsters or climbers. For those that wish to produce quartered form for that romantic feeling, this is a route that could be considered.

I have a cross out of [((Carefree Marvel x Livin' Easy) x Sunshine Daydream) x (Yellow Brick Road x Uwe Seeler)]. It's a peach grandiflora with quartered form.

'Borderer' is another example.

For fragrance, I imagine Rosa moschata would be a good source if crossed wisely.

Post Reply