First germinations

A meeting place for rose breeders.
jbergeson
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59495Post jbergeson
Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:57 am

Thanks for all of that info, Mark.

My initial observations of R. foliolosa mirror your own. It accepts foreign pollen, germinates well, and OP seedlings show signs of hybridity.

Interestingly, R. arkansana also gives me the impression of looking somewhat ragged up here in zone 3. Maybe not unhappy, but unkempt.

Joe

mwesson
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Zone 9 MS Coast

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59509Post mwesson
Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:03 pm

Warren,

I've tried several Teas and Chinas, but for the most part they haven't been happy here either. Mrs. B. R. Cant is the only Tea that has prospered here, and the only China that's been happy here is a pink china rose that I found in an old cemetery in Savannah, GA, years ago. The only thing I can say for sure about it's identity is that it isn't Old Blush. Unfortunately, both of these have limited fertility, so progress has been slow. I do have a couple of seedlings from a few years ago from bracteata pollen on the pink china that I'm excited about.

Joe,

"Unkempt" is a perfect description of arkansana.

Mark

philip_la
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59525Post philip_la
Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:08 pm

Mark, I'm surprised to hear the teas and chinas aren't doing well for you. I wonder is it your soil?

Mrs. B.R. Cant is a great rose. I have not crossed with them, but you might also consider Mons. Tillier, Duchesse de Brabant, Georgetown Tea, and Mrs. Dudley Cross for teas, and Ducher and Mutabilis should do very well for you in the chinas, if you get them own root from reputable sources. I often find grafted roses do not perform as expected. (Dunno if stock choice or virus causes issues I sometimes have with grafted as compared to same variety acquired own root...)

Warren has had some nice, interesting results from some of the old teas. I don't know that you would expect cold-hardiness or resistance to mildew from such, but I would imagine some potential might come of crossing the better teas and chinas with solid modern roses.

You can PM me if you want. I might be able to root a few varieties,if I can find the time, and have better success on the next round of rootings! (New climate, new garden, new challenges...)
Philip F.
Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)

mwesson
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Zone 9 MS Coast

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59542Post mwesson
Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:35 am

Philip,

The soil is a big part of the problem. My property has areas where very little will grow. I also found out from a neighbor who grew up in the area that, before this subdivision was built, this area was outside city limits and was used as a dump. You can imagine how thrilled I was to find that out, but it does explain the weird things I dig up every time I put a shovel in the ground. I've been here ten years plus now, and it's a slow process improving the soil. It's getting better, but it takes time. I'm a few years away from retirement. Hopefully I'll have more time to get more done then.

Mark

Warren
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59551Post Warren
Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:09 pm

Mark is the soil sandy?

mwesson
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Zone 9 MS Coast

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59564Post mwesson
Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:53 pm

Warren,

No, not sandy soil. The soil here is a pasty grey color. It's brick hard during dry spells and water normally runs off without soaking in. When we've had a lot of rain and standing water, it smells like the local bayous smell when the tide is out. I suspect the soil may have been dredged and dumped here before the subdivision was built to raise the soil level. We're just a few miles from the Gulf of Mexico here and there is no high ground for building. If I dig down a foot or so in many areas I find an orange clay.

Mark

philip_la
Posts: 1079
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59586Post philip_la
Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:53 am

Yuck. I suppose that even amended, the soil might be pretty high in dissolved salts then. Throw in the concrete-like nature of clay and silt, and you've got a bit of a challenge. You might check your pH too to see if turning in some lime might help.

Good luck!
Philip F.
Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)

mwesson
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:37 pm
Location: Zone 9 MS Coast

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59589Post mwesson
Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:29 pm

Thanks, Philip. The areas I've checked for pH have all been neutral to slightly acidic.

Mark

Charles Calaforra
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:51 am
Location: Zone 10 Florida

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59592Post Charles Calaforra
Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:47 am

Mark,

Peggy Martin is a rose that may do well for you. It's known to do well in nearby New Orleans, and it's famous for surviving under a wall of saltwater until engineers were able to blow a hole in a nearby levee allowing the sea water to drain away. It's a once blooming thornless climber, but many of it's seedlings are repeating bushes. I'd be glad to send you some cuttings of it (easy rooter). Have some Darlow's Enigma x (mixed china/tea pollen) seeds that may do well also. Send a PM if interested, Charles.

Warren
Posts: 1731
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59596Post Warren
Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:53 pm

Rosa tunquinensis OP seedlings, seed sent over from India.
Attachments
004.jpg

pgeurts
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Annandale, Minnesota

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59614Post pgeurts
Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:16 pm

I have a number of seedlings this year from crosses with Metis that I’m excited about. I did reciprocal crosses with a ((Show Pavement x R.blanda) x (Marie Pavie x R.blanda)) and Metis and have seedlings from both. The exciting part is that a number of them have juvenile repeat bloom and I wasn’t expecting that. Also with most of them you can see the Metis influence in the leaves. I also have some Metis x Catherine Guelda and Metis x Schneezwerg seedlings as well, but these are smaller and none of them have bloomed yet.
Paul Geurts
Zone 4 Minnesota

jbergeson
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59615Post jbergeson
Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:01 pm

Juvenile repeat bloom is always cause for celebration, Paul. It'll be fun to see what they grow up to be.

pgeurts
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Annandale, Minnesota

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59627Post pgeurts
Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:14 am

I’m really looking forward to see what they look like when they mature also. I’ve had Metis for 7 or 8 years but these are the first crosses I did with it. I really like the foliage of it and I’m glad the seedlings show it’s influence. The ((SPxRb)x(MPxRb)) plant is hardy and repeats but it has large course leaves and I crossed it with plants that had smaller leaves last year. I knew that roughly 50% of the seedlings would have repeat bloom but I wasn’t expecting them to have juvenile repeat bloom. Now I expect some of the Metis x Catherine Guelda to have juvenile repeat bloom as well. It’s gratifying to see that these seedlings are more than I’d hoped they’d be.
Paul Geurts
Zone 4 Minnesota

johannes p
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59628Post johannes p
Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:39 am

Paul, I admire your abilities with Metis. I have only been able to tease a few seedlings out of it but overall it resents crossing with my normal breeding lines. I am going to try OP seeds next year since it sets those fairly well. I would argue that it is one of the most beautiful of roses in the north. j

pgeurts
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Annandale, Minnesota

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59630Post pgeurts
Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:19 pm

Since last year was the first time I used Metis I didn’t know what to expect when I did the pollinations. I used four pollens on it and three of them took, the forth may have been too wide of a cross. I got the most seeds by far with the Schneezwerg cross but they had the poorest germination rate, so I didn’t really get any more seedlings from that cross. The other crosses all had around 25% germination rate.

I agree, Metis is a very good looking plant and should be utilized more.
Paul Geurts
Zone 4 Minnesota

jbergeson
Posts: 1420
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59631Post jbergeson
Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:39 pm

Now you guys are making me think I should have Metis. If you ever get a cutting to root or find a sucker you want to get rid of, Paul, remember me. :)

Kinda makes me want to work with R. nitida a little more. I have seeds stratifying from R. nitida pollinated (open, morning-pollinated blossoms left unwrapped) with Commander Gillette, Lena, Grouse, and Petit Pink.

pgeurts
Posts: 299
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:26 am
Location: Annandale, Minnesota

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59632Post pgeurts
Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:02 pm

I hope you get some seedlings from the R.nitida seeds. Metis doesn’t put out many flowers and it’s susceptible to PM so one of those seedlings maybe an improvement.
I’ll see what I can do for a sucker. There is one dead center of Darts Dash and it’ll be hard to get at, but there maybe others.
Paul Geurts
Zone 4 Minnesota

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1823
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59646Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:46 pm

germinating this week:

Morning Magic x Midnight Blue - a nice lavender that is healthy with a smaller stature than MM is what I'm hoping for with this one.

Raspberry Rugostar x Lychee - Rugosa hybrid x hybrid hulthemia...what can I say...looking for rugose leaves and a red blotch. More than single bloom form would be really nice.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

shoy
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59699Post shoy
Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:52 pm

Transplanting seedlings of:
Manhattan Blue x Doorenbos Selection
Lafter x Paul Ecke, Jr.
Seashell Sands x My Stars
&
OP seedlings from Nyveldt's White and Ping Lim's Golden Eye (which by the way is very fertile as a seed parent - producing red blends, apricots, pale yellow).
Stephen Hoy
Singularly Beautiful Roses
Warner Robins, GA

Charles Calaforra
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:51 am
Location: Zone 10 Florida

Re: First germinations

Post: # 59710Post Charles Calaforra
Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:17 pm

I'm getting several magenta-ish flowered China type seedlings, which I'm happy with so far. Time will tell.

Post Reply