Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

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rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74287Post rikuhelin1
Fri Apr 22, 2022 5:13 pm

Bench Electronic equipment aided photo.

I been engaging in overly retentive inspection of the no show seeds and minor variable adjustments over the last week trying to beat post boarding call post germination … a number of stubborn seeds have this dirty white appendage … this looks to me as a stubborn 6910 is trying to germinate … anyone wish to centure yays or nays that photo shows germination starting or misfire (color) ?

I am use to brilliant to translucent white starts.
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Riku

Don
Posts: 1946
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Re: Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74288Post Don
Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:55 pm

Hazeldean seedlings.jpg
The Hazeldean OP seedlings in this image are all the same age having germinated simultaneously from embryo culture. Notice the two on the right top and bottom. Whereas the others have well developed roots these two exhibit a phenomenon that I call 'blind root'. It happens a lot in my experience. I do not know the cause. I originally thought that I might have nipped the root apex during extraction but I came to realize it is simply something that occurs spontaneously. I did not study it but can say that if one embryo from a hip shows the problem then chances are good more than one will which means it is under genetic control - or perhaps genetics out of control.

I think this is what you are seeing.
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74291Post rikuhelin1
Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:44 pm

Txs Don for the experience and proof transfer - never even thought about the bottom end root start maybe being susceptible to a miscoding after seed triggered to start (roots mal germination).

I would add this is the second time in a week l checked the stubborn seeds, and the ones that had this “blind end” did not appear to have grown, or maybe just nano’d in length (my techno slang).

Was testing another approach on this seed disturbance go around of putting the non- starter seeds at the interface of the potting soil and pearlite layers. Speculating maybe direct contact with damp organics helps defeat stubborn vs sitting completely in blanched in pumice that seems to draw up moisture very well.
Riku

Don
Posts: 1946
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Re: Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74292Post Don
Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:31 am

E-84 W-AK Persian Sunset OP seedlings.JPG
Going through my photos I found these op seedlings of Persian Sunset that all suffered the same blind root problem. It may help explain the lack of descendants of Persian Sunset.
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74296Post rikuhelin1
Sat Apr 23, 2022 9:24 am

Sure is definitive evidence as one could hope for that some avenues maybe diminishing returns as likely “too” challenging or dead ends.

Time might be better spent pursuing other breeding combos. Again an eye opener keeping it interesting.

My hope is that since R. xanthina (normalis) was id by me for me, as “soooo easy” (tongue in cheek) to germinate l should check going that way as a more fruitful path - both as pollen and seed parent.

Txs again for experience input.
Riku

Don
Posts: 1946
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm

Re: Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74303Post Don
Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:36 pm

The gene combinations in modern roses have pretty much been played out. Introducing new traits from outside the modern gene pool is the only avenue left for innovation aside from genetic engineering. In such cases where you are engaged in very wide crosses and you run into problems like blind root there is merit in pursuing the challenges.

Taking the specific case of these Persian Sunset seedlings, for instance, at least a couple seem to be developing normal leaves. A bit of skillful grafting might yield a keeper. Brute force persistence might also yield one with good roots among many without. Of the thousands of crosses I made I kept only three plants. One of these, a moyesii hybrid of Persian Autumn, was the product of brute force - and blind luck.

Of course, the odds are stacked against you. Not a single seedling of a gazillion out-crosses onto Sericea ever made it to sunlight.

>> some avenues maybe diminishing returns as likely “too” challenging or dead ends.
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Opinion Please on Proof of Germination Life

Post: # 74310Post rikuhelin1
Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:13 pm

Have to agree, the early days are long gone for getting excited about commercial new introductions based on most meeting the shredder due to mother nature here. Back to the prairie pioneer F1+ x and xyz stan species roses.

Hence the long climb up “ Annapurna “ … and singular focus of late that germination “is not everything … its the ONLY thing”
Riku

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