How Does Height Work Genetically?

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jwdykes
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:29 pm
Location: TN, Zone 6b/7a

How Does Height Work Genetically?

Post: # 73225Post jwdykes
Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:08 pm

I've been loathe to acquire any minis, as I'm a fan of bigger bushes. However, some minis have unusual colors and traits that I just haven't seen in regular-sized plants. When breeding with miniatures, is it easy to reacquire tall stature in offspring? Any papers on the subject, or firsthand experience, would be appreciated.

roseseek
Posts: 5279
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: How Does Height Work Genetically?

Post: # 73226Post roseseek
Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:11 pm

Look at the back ground for Scentimental. The stripes came from Ferdinand Pichard through minis. The two red underlined roses are the minis in its back ground. It's full sized.
Screenshot (231)_LI.jpg
Lynnie, which can easily grow over 5' X 5' is half mini (Torch of Liberty) X Basye's Legacy. This Hugonis hybrid is large sized and a first generation mini cross. https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.73883.0 Striped Lynnie is the result of two minis and is full sized. https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.73788 Fertile triploids play large parts. Perhaps it might behoove you to include them in your mix?
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

pacificjade
Posts: 757
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:15 am

Re: How Does Height Work Genetically?

Post: # 73265Post pacificjade
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:08 am

[quote=jwdykes post_id=73225 time=1628960902 user_id=2326]
I've been loathe to acquire any minis, as I'm a fan of bigger bushes. However, some minis have unusual colors and traits that I just haven't seen in regular-sized plants. When breeding with miniatures, is it easy to reacquire tall stature in offspring? Any papers on the subject, or firsthand experience, would be appreciated.
[/quote]

This is a fairly complex question. Height is affected by many genetic traits.

Miniaturism. Gigantism. Semi-dwarfism. Dwarfism. Terminating and non-terminating growth. Vigor. Ploidy. Deleterious alleles. And some other various factors. Most of which compounds or conflicts with one another.

It is easy to acquire very tall, non-climbing miniatures, and they are almost never desired.

roseseek
Posts: 5279
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: How Does Height Work Genetically?

Post: # 73267Post roseseek
Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:38 pm

Yes, you can raise undesirable tall minis, and you can also, easily raise cathedral eating monsters which never flower, not using them. Minis have provided 'bridges' between what we wanted and what we couldn't do without them. Without minis, would we have the mossing, stripes, Hulthemia blotches so easily raised from breeding we have today? All of which came directly from Ralph Moore's work and all of it through miniatures.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: How Does Height Work Genetically?

Post: # 73268Post mntlover
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:20 pm

A fascinating "bridge", leading apparently to several different directions. It will be interesting to see where else it leads.
Duane

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