Variance from first bloom to maturity

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mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Variance from first bloom to maturity

Post: # 73211Post mntlover
Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:48 pm

I have read some (on and off here on the forum) about the first bloom on a seedling not being, necessarily, representative of the rose at maturity. I realize the amount of difference may vary quite a bit between different rose seedlings, at least I have seen that in my own, so I'm sure it isn't possible to give really accurate predictions. But I have a question that I am curious if anyone has noticed a trend in their experience:
Is the variance between first bloom and mature bloom greater on plants with juvenile bloom than it is on plants with delayed remontancy?
I have a three year old seedling that bloomed for the first time. It is fully double, which I desired in the cross. There is just a hint of a button eye, which I was hoping may develop more with maturity, but wasn't sure if that was realistic, seeing as it is already in it's third season.
It is fragrant, so is delightful either way.
But I was curious if anyone had thoughts on the subject?
Duane

bvanderhoek
Posts: 163
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:19 pm

Re: Variance from first bloom to maturity

Post: # 73213Post bvanderhoek
Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:20 pm

That's a great question! If the plant is of a mature size and the flower bloomed under average growing conditions (regular water, not during a heat wave, etc.), I would assume the flower represents its mature form.

In my experience, repeaters that bloom as little seedlings will gain petals, form, size, also scent maybe, as the plant grows and gains the strength to support more and larger flowers.

Roses that seem to want to grow to maturity before producing flowers will be capable of producing a flower of mature size and form from the start, though hot weather may lead to smaller flowers, fewer flowers, and sometimes weird colors. (For me, rich reddish-purple OGR types will turn a less attractive shade of magenta in a hot season.)

Giessen
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:32 pm
Location: Austria

Re: Variance from first bloom to maturity

Post: # 73214Post Giessen
Wed Aug 11, 2021 4:44 pm

I have so many seedlings which turned out to be really VERY different from their maiden blooms, sometimes it is hard to believe it was the same plant. The variations were not only in shape but also in color. Many times the color shifting was even more difficult to predict, whereas the shape of bloom was more or less predictable. It depends also very much on the conditions of maiden bloom development. In my case, maiden blooms appear when a seedling has a very small pot/ root volume and therefore the plant isn’t able to develop its first bloom to the “mature” state, of course. And the color of the maiden bloom will change anyway, because my seedlings normally start blooming under artificial lights. Once they are outdoors and take some sun, they may change colors dramatically. So, it requires some skills and experience to make a prediction from maiden bloom and to perform the first selection. That it why I tend to make the very first selection based rather on vigor, on how soon the first bud it formed and on frangrance. To me, the bloom characteristics like shape and color are not very important at this stage, but actually one can guess quite right in some cases.

mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Variance from first bloom to maturity

Post: # 73217Post mntlover
Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:32 pm

I have had quite a bit of change in color, some I am sure is in seedlings that bloomed small under lights and then moved outside, as was mentioned.
I also have variance in color of seedlings with weather/season, most of these seem to be from Lilian Austin or Abraham Darby. I was wondering if this trait came from Aloha. Anyone worked with it that can verify that?
Perhaps some of the lack of change in my seedlings with delayed remontancy is that they have already been growing outdoors for a season of two before they bloom.
Thanks for the input!
Duane

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