Prickles on the hypocotyl?

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Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72905Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:26 pm

This might be a question that's been answered here before, but I couldn't find it with a search.

One of my new seedlings came up with prickles on the hypocotyl. Is this common? This is the first cross I've made with a parent that has R. spinosissima in its ancestry, so I don't know if it's a common occurrence. It wouldn't surprise me, though, considering the species.

Here's a pic:
20210416 Seedling with prickles TK-rosa-2020-01-01.jpg

roseseek
Posts: 5283
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72906Post roseseek
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:08 am

It's a fairly common occurrence with many types of roses.You will see it with many modern x modern crosses, too.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Rosarian_Du_Nord
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72907Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:59 pm

Thanks Kim!

I thought that would be the case. I'm so surprised that I haven't seen it with all of the R. rugosa seeds that I've germinated. I'm either not paying attention, or I need some specs!

Tony

roseseek
Posts: 5283
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72909Post roseseek
Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:19 pm

You're welcome, Tony. They are more pronounced on some compared to others. The most likely reason for your not noticing them before is you're looking for too many things to keep track of. Kind of like Ralph Moore's "how many balls can YOU juggle?" comment when I asked why he hadn't registered a rose he had all ready for introduction, but never got around to moving forward with. Add that to your list of "what to look out for" and you will probably start seeing more of it.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Rosarian_Du_Nord
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72992Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Wed May 19, 2021 11:23 pm

I have an update. It's kind of interesting to me. The seedling that I posted originally is the only one of the siblings from the same hip that has prickles on the hypocotyl but is "thornless" or prickle-less on the epicotyl. Its siblings that lack prickles on the hypocotyl have lots of prickles on their epicotyls. There are a few other siblings from the same hip that show the same prickle-less hypocotyls but prickly epicotyls. The flower bud is definitely a bonus on the seedling from the original post also!

Tony
Attachments
20210519 Seedling with prickles TK-rosa-2020-01-01 and siblings cropped.jpg

mntlover
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72994Post mntlover
Thu May 20, 2021 1:17 pm

Nice looking seedlings.
Great to see a bud!
Was the spin pollen or seed parent?
It would be great to have juvenile repeat from spin (hybrid I'm assuming?) to sort seedlings.
Duane

Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 72995Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Thu May 20, 2021 2:01 pm

Hi Duane!

The spin hybrid was the pollen parent.

Tony

Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73017Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Wed May 26, 2021 11:03 pm

Duane - would you be willing to expound upon the seedling sorting process, or direct me to an existing post?

Thanks!

Tony

Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73020Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Thu May 27, 2021 12:33 pm

Is it wise to cut the flower bud off so the plant can focus on growing, or is it worth it to satisfy one's curiosity and let it open first?

Tony

mntlover
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73021Post mntlover
Thu May 27, 2021 3:29 pm

The seedling sorting process may answer your second question for you, as space often ends up a premium. Some people pinch off the first bud, which is no doubt good for helping the plant get established. Others let it bloom because they will cull seedlings at that point. Much will depend on the volume of plants and on your goal. I have done both, and will probably continue to do so based upon the specific cross and the numbers I have; however, I have a lot of seedlings lost due to genetic issues from such wide crosses, which limits numbers for me.

If I remember right there was a section in the rose breeding handbook (maybe the second one) written by Radler on sorting rose seedlings.
There have been discussions on the forum about it also, but you'd have to experiment with what words to search for.
Perhaps others can comment on the process they use.
Duane

Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73075Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:42 pm

Another sibling to the others I've posted photos of here has a flower bud and is nearly "thornless".
20210607 nearly thornless with bud cropped.jpg

Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73271Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:52 pm

Unfortunately, the first seedling that was thornless died not long after the photo was taken. The flower bud never opened and the plant failed to thrive.

The good news is that the second one that developed a flower bud early is thriving and has flower full-sized blooms in the past week. Photos below.

Rosarian_Du_Nord
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73272Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:55 pm

20210828 Abraham Darby x Suzanne 02 early bloom cropped.jpg
20210828 Abraham Darby x Suzanne 02 bloom cropped.jpg

Rosarian_Du_Nord
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73273Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:59 pm

They have a nice slightly fruity with what I think is a tea scent. I'll have to judge it later under better conditions. We have these small green insects that come out of the cornfields after the corn is done silking, and they damage every rose in my yard for a few weeks....completely destroying some. I had to shake a dozen off the flower before taking the second pic, so it's kind of beat up....along with the chomp marks.

mntlover
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73274Post mntlover
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:01 pm

Beautiful, and great to have fragrance! What were your goals that led you to using a spin hybrid? Hopefully some of that carried through also.
I haven't had a lot of success yet with the spin route, but just getting started. Most seedlings have died right away. One strong growing one, but no blooms yet.
Duane

Rosarian_Du_Nord
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73282Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:10 am

Hi Duane!

I'm looking for OGR bloom type and fragrance with remontancy and Zone 3 or lower hardiness. Not asking for much, right? ;)

This one seems to fit the bill so far......hardiness will be determined this winter.

Tony

Rosarian_Du_Nord
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73283Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:13 am

BTW....I've identified the green insects as northern corn rootworm beetles. I guess it's not the best thing to raise roses on a property that's surrounded by farm field. I'm going to deal with no flowers the second half of every other summer......

mntlover
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Prickles on the hypocotyl?

Post: # 73285Post mntlover
Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:26 pm

Let us know how the hardiness goes on that one, it is really pretty! Bummer about the bugs.
Duane

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