thoughts on Wasagaming seeds?

A meeting place for rose breeders.
Post Reply
mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

thoughts on Wasagaming seeds?

Post: # 72718Post mntlover
Fri Feb 05, 2021 9:58 am

None of the early crosses I tried on Wasagaming succeeded. There were a few flowers later as a second round that I pollinated and labeled ( I thought) with pollen from Agnes and a seedling from Martine Frobisher. I figured they may have a better chance of being received. I was glad to see hips forming .and remaining on the bush. In the end I harvested three hips that started to color a bit, brought them in and out in the windowsill in a vase.

When I processed the hips I did a float test, trying to gather as much information as possible the first year testing. The first two hips all of the seeds floated (like a bobber). I was hopeful that this was due to being a rugosa hybrid. That is until I processed the third hips and had half of the seeds sink. So, were the first two hips all bad?

I compared the seeds and noticed that the appearance of the seeds were completely different. The first two hips (all of which floated) reminded me of seeds from Therese Bugnet in size and form (perhaps also of Martin Frobisher). The seeds from the third hip (some of which sunk) were larger and looked different. (not sure how to explain different, other than color or size or overall effect).

I am aboslutelu positive all three hips were from Wasagaming: branches, leaves, hips, all looked the same; just not the seeds.

Could the third hip be a different pollen? It is possible I out a different pollen on a bloom that opened a bit later, some pollen I was using on a different bush, but didn't label.
Would a different pollen make such a drastic difference in seeds in the same seed parent?

I have the first germination in the batch of seeds which floated ( I kept the seeds seperate to observe). So at least one was viable. And from the looks I should have more germinations soon. I realize I can continue with a useful seedling, regardless of its parentage, but I was curious about the discrepancy I found.
Has anyone else noticed this, especially in hybrid rugosas and moderns?

I am attaching pictures. The comparison in size (with them side by side) may not be one hundred percent accurate due to camera angle, but I would say the batch on the right is not quite double the size of those on the left (maybe 70 percent larger).

Thanks for any thoughts!

Duane
Attachments
IMG_20210205_054800909_HDR.jpg
IMG_20210205_054727770_BURST000_COVER.jpg
IMG_20210205_054719485_HDR.jpg

mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: thoughts on Wasagaming seeds?

Post: # 72778Post mntlover
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:29 pm

Update: a lot of germinations from the batch of floating seeds.
I am really glad to see such good germination from Wasagaming.
Also, all of the seeds that sunk have germinated also.

Too early to compare yet. But I will do as they grow. I realize the most likely explanation is that I mixed up or mislabeled seeds. However, I know how much care I took with these particular hips. It will be interesting to see what the seedlings are like.
Duane

mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: thoughts on Wasagaming seeds?

Post: # 73278Post mntlover
Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:12 pm

Update on seedlings:
I kept seedlings from the two batches of seeds separate. I have several seedlings from each batch that I have kept to test.
They all show definite signs of being Rugosa seedlings. Time will hopefully tell me more.

I had more hips take this season on Wasagaming than I expected, I'm not sure if weather played a factor.
Also it accepted more pollens than I expected.

Once again the seeds look different from the different crosses; some all floated and others sunk.
Is it possible that pollen parent could determine this?

Looking forward to more seedlings from this one to test. I was really impressed with its first year in the garden!
Duane

Roselynn
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:19 am
Location: Zone 3b; north of city of Calgary; Alberta, Canada

Re: thoughts on Wasagaming seeds?

Post: # 73279Post Roselynn
Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:53 pm

Thank you for sharing your experiences Duane. I haven’t been actively breeding much, but have used Wasagaming in the past. In the rugosas crossed I’ve tried, yes I have observed rugosa seeds often float, and the size of seeds can vary very slightly depending on pollen parent.

Some of my Wasagaming crosses finally bloomed this summer after three years. They have kept the fragrance and the cupped bloom form. They’re planted very tightly together so it’s hard to tell what the bush form is supposed to be.
Roselynn W.
Canada Zone 3b. North of Calgary, Alberta (52°N). Prairies, Chinook winds, 3500 ft. altitude.

mntlover
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: thoughts on Wasagaming seeds?

Post: # 73280Post mntlover
Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:22 pm

Thank you Roselynn for sharing your experience! I am really glad to hear that the fragrance and cupped bloom form carried through, as this is why I chose it, aside from cold resistance obviously.
I have crossed it with less hardy roses (although trying to use zone 4) that have the form and fragrance and also repeat well. We will see how it goes.
The exception is a cross with a Martin Frobisher x Therese Bugnet seedling that is wonderful.
My other Rugosa hybrids took two or three years to bloom also, so hopefully these will follow suit. Although I have some that haven't bloomed at all yet, and a couple that had juvenile remontancy.
I hope your seedlings continue to grow and thrive.
Duane

Post Reply