Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

A meeting place for rose breeders.
roseseek
Posts: 5218
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72565Post roseseek
Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:02 pm

Ooo! I bet THAT smells "interesting"! I just buy the liquid Spinosad as it has a slight minty stench, like the old grammar school library paste. A Tbs per gallon is the application rate for virtually everything else so that's what they get,too.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

philip_la
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72573Post philip_la
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:30 pm

That's the first I've seen of a liquid solution of Bti for American consumers in a reasonable quantity, though it has been several years since I've searched. Thank you, David.
Philip F.
Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)

rikuhelin1
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72584Post rikuhelin1
Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:31 pm

I have use(d) the Bti granules and two different strengths based on internal availability in the heat of the moment.

Use mainly the gel (Wilson) but can only find hormone at lowest common strength here.

Three powder strengths have been tried depending on how woody and tough to get a take ... however pretty much abandoned powders - no sci. rational except prefer the way the gel provides easy and complete coverage of wound to my eye. Let them soak in container as prepping and adding more of the same cuttings - tap / flick excess off. Usually insert into media via a pencil hole while avoiding wiping of wound during insertion.

Then ignore Achilles heel - water added to bottom of full tray (small perennial recycled containers) about a half inch, (10x20 trays) to give a complete soak as “peat moss” absorbs overtime until tray dry. Error seems to be too frequent top up damping. Pulled out old simple moisture meter and been using.

Alika has now completely leafed out a new growth stem and leaves (small starter stem). RDxS doing very well. Gertie showing bud swelling a leaf node. Gnats non - issue as top up granule loading - so far twice in Dec..

Moisture control (run dryer) and disciplined addition of Bti key prep learning, as is the triage of changing of “soil” for occurrence of stagnating take in moist conditions.

mntlover
Posts: 283
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72585Post mntlover
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:30 pm

I didn't realize Gertie was so difficult to root. Is it possible to try pegging for some of your plants? I am glad to hear your cuttings seem to be making it!
Duane

rikuhelin1
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72586Post rikuhelin1
Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:46 pm

It has been for me over - never succeeded - though saw a utube where uk fellow just takes GJ cuttings trims to leaf (2) I believe and sticks them in pot and pretty well voila they take ... makes me twist thinking about it

rikuhelin1
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72596Post rikuhelin1
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:07 pm

Sign-off time on this thread on a high note ... 3 out 3 for successes by following the advice in thread. And topping it off with number 3 the illusive Gertie has for the first time after many tries over the years (decade plus), made it to producing new growth from a cutting ... bit melodramatic, but means advice can work to achieve a set goal. Txs again
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roseseek
Posts: 5218
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72597Post roseseek
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:35 pm

Good for you! Congratulations!
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

MidAtlas
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72599Post MidAtlas
Thu Jan 07, 2021 12:12 am

I'm really happy to hear about this runaway success--where will you find room for the new Gertrude Jekyll hedge, though? I know you have some rare varieties up there, so any improvement in your rooting percentage should help to keep those in circulation just that much longer. :-)

rikuhelin1
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72600Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:23 pm

Txs Kim and Stefan,

Gertie is likely to join the last 2 surviving Gertie’s in the sheltered bay window. A confined but magnificently performing RDxS in bay spot will be transplanted in spring to replace a spino hybrid (Aicha s.p.?) that grows to a giant by fall but has poor winter hardiness - most canes die - and poor bloom in my garden. It has not earned it premium all day sun place over the last 5 years. Also hope transplanting will allow a shaded Aimes (sic?) climber to fire up as performance has to too slow in a premium spot.

A second poor performing Aichia will also be culled to increase a Finn gallica cross’s (Joy et al) real estate allowance (if it survived its first winter). Grew very well (large) in first year

RDxS has earned a promotion to non confined new growing spot to hit its full potential while being more exposed - will know in five year after a suitable recovery period.

The Lillian likely to replace a deceased large one that grew and bloomed well but likely had too many hard prunings from winter kill ... and gave up.

Alika will likely replace a persistently anemic white rugosa in front. A 5-8 year Alika is a prime breeder target for me. Hit its stride last year with abundant hips, some from crosses.

The new NA rare ones coming have been for the most part designated for trial in the colder and shadier north gardens except for the repeating spinos who go to south open bed garden unless my Hp and Helenae experiment failed over winter then they replace them and get it easy for awhile. The new ones are for most part spino hybrids and repatriated Canadians.

MidAtlas
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72605Post MidAtlas
Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:16 pm

Wow, I was only kidding--but you have plans for everything!

Red Dawn x Suzanne is one intriguing rose; I've always wondered how much its Explorer derivatives owe their better qualities to its influence relative to the "kordesii" background, but have never seen one in person, much less grown it. Does it show any of their tendency to die back hard in random winters?

It's sad to hear that 'Lillian Gibson' is not that hardy where you are. I had been impressed that it had performed fairly well both in MN and here so far, but obviously its hardiness must trail off not far below -30F (the only glimmer of hope is the idea that there might be two different clones going under the same name, but it's probably too much to hope that one would be substantially hardier than the other.) Does yours have prickles?

I also really enjoy 'Alika' even though I haven't given it a very good place to grow here, and it only just stays ahead of cane disease enough to bloom every year. It is great to know that it is hardy there, and I should probably have used mine in some exploratory crosses already, too. The flowers are nice and it's obviously very fertile, based on the crop of hips that form and the various hybrids that others have introduced.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 286
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rooted Cuttings Failure Question?

Post: # 72606Post rikuhelin1
Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:29 pm

Hi Stefan

My large RDxS is in the bay window plot (south facing) and is sheltered from north west and east winds plus gets whatever radiant is thrown from the house wall say 2-3 feet away. Started as a rooted cutting given by friend plus l added another one l rooted 6 inches away - thought it was one of my Red Dawn cutting takes - wasn’t it was RD x S. Both cuttings never had what l call “cane winter loss issues”. Unlike my all departed RD.

Maybe an inch or two of dieback at tips of canes. It has no thug tendencies as some hardy species.

After spring flush it will continue to put out blooms of same quality just maybe at 10% to 20% of the quantity.

Not noticed anything except late season mildew.
Another small cutting was planted near the departed LG.. with no die back.

This one of those hybrids that should of taken Simonet’s name. I am a big fan of it and question what happened to creation of cane hardy off-spring for my garden ... l would of wagered that plenty of cane hardy roses for my garden should of resulted ... guess not, wondering if red dawn and other partners lower grade hardiness genetics started to surface - not a cm of unprotected cane hardiness in my departed RDs.

Hence my goal to move it to the centre south bed (more exposed) and see what performance results.

I am repatriating one “clone” to see if a more gentle climate changed behaviour.

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