Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

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rikuhelin1
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72418Post rikuhelin1
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:56 pm

https://ruususeura.ruususeura.fi/c-engl ... ons-1.html

This general Peter Joy (not Boyd) Finnish rose history article is like deja vu for my experience in the Canadian Prairies/Foothills ... eg Agatha, Empress Josephine etc and gives affinity inspiration to me for frigid zone hybridizing ... now crack the Agatha (rock hardy for me) hybridizing and ORT propagation nut as another goal.

Also supports trying hardy with tender (White Star of Finland) to produce hardy rambler ...

Yellow success seems to have been lacking up to article date

rikuhelin1
Posts: 285
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Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72425Post rikuhelin1
Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:11 pm

Forgot to share wrt my work, crossed Agatha (pollen parent) with RDxS, white Altai, Alika Morden 6910 and Butterball this season and obtained sinking seed

MidAtlas
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72466Post MidAtlas
Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:14 am

I finally had a chance to read this, and found it a very interesting history and a good read... 'Agatha' sounds like a rose worth exploring more in breeding. Do you find it to have any notable disease problems where you are? That's mentioned by some, although a similar variety called 'Sanna' (not that it will be available in the U.S.) sounds like it may be an improvement in that regard: http://www.worldrose.org/assets/proceedings_wrc2018.pdf (pp. 21-23, although it is all worth reading).

I had 'Polstjarnan' here for a while and found it very difficult both in breeding (tiny flowers with no discernable fertility in either direction during my attempts) and in the garden (disease prone foliage and terrible prickles to work around, although it grew well enough otherwise)--I think that David had some success crossing it with other roses, which is really exciting. I never detected any hint of fragrance from it even though I normally have a very sensitive nose. It does have wonderful cold hardiness, and I think it is also healthier up north. A chromosome-doubled version might be something to try for, for anyone with the means.

Stefan

rikuhelin1
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Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72468Post rikuhelin1
Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:42 am

Hi Stefan

Yes my observations are congruent with the “Joy” paper for Agatha and Empress Josephine plus and minus attributes. And they are the reasons finding the paper on the Finn Rose Society site was fortuitous - that and being in English as language long lost.

On the negative side my 14 year old Agatha's suffer from drawbacks that offset its astounding hardiness (here anyways). The “black cane blotching” in paper being one. I have not seen a case of ringing with subsequent “cane mortality ” to blame on it or stunting of cane growth. They are tall roses in my garden say 6-9 foot. Other issues for my examples are sparse basal breaks, and no occurrences noted of self or open pollinations (no hips ever). And tough to propagate (likely skill based issue). However again its stature is large, appealing bloom form and hardiness let me blush over the issues as with the thorniness, suckers and aggressive nature of near species very hardy spinos and altai hybrids ( prune very hard to 3 or 4 canes ).

White Star of Finland (L. Hole’s fault for using it that name as l find it easier to spell - no political overtones meant) l find a tweezer bloom and have never used it. My take away was Orleans rose apparently used while maintaining hardiness - a good sign for getting another non white hardy rambler / climber - which is lacking. Though disjointed note wrt ramblers, l’ve never have found Simonet's Pink Masquerade (laxa / spino) to test against the lsabel Skinner repeater ( laxa / hp effort).

But what these three roses tell me is tall very hardy, ehtetically pleasing climber or rambler is so doable - just statistically not enough workers tried to make them common place as in zones 5+.

Now Sanna is on the list. Also CFIA approved procedures being used this spring to bring in reported Finnish blanda find that crosses both ways. And repeating spinos/ pimps.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72469Post rikuhelin1
Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:21 am

Forgot, in my case yes no identified 'Polstjarnan' disease issues in my garden. Though the main plant of 2 (other in shade) was cut to nearly ground after 15 plus years or growth and for the first time due to extensive die back showing in spring - a lot of hardy roses for some reason had extensive died back extensively ... including a Suzanne. I attribute it to cane age since could not see a visible reason to blame. Grew to 5 feet by fall.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72471Post rikuhelin1
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:34 pm

ignore non laxa species in PM and IS as Hmf gives other parent as a Bohmer FB for PM and for IS as a tea crossed with laxa R. then crossed with seedling ... assuming tea cross true pretty impressive result to me for IS based on my try of teas ... again hardy with tender works for a hardy

MidAtlas
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72473Post MidAtlas
Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:14 pm

Thanks, that's really good to know! I wonder what the cause of disease in 'Agatha' might be. It sounds almost like it might be unique to that variety, the way it's described. Hopefully it is nowhere to be seen in its seedlings.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 285
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72477Post rikuhelin1
Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:18 pm

Should mention, for nostalgic historical truth testing of why do old European roses show-up, my aiiti also grew a rose back in Ontario she said was the Midsummer’s Rose. She obtained a runner from another post-wars immigrant Finnish couple who obtained theirs through the informal cultural heritage chain links.

Was a double white pimpinefolia that ran like mad.

rugosa
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:56 am

Re: Rose Traditions in Finland - old Peter Joy Article

Post: # 72501Post rugosa
Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:27 am

That Finnish rose that Riku mentioned is R. pimpinellifolia 'Plena' (Midsummer rose,Finnish name is Juhannusruusu)
On the website of the Finnish Rose Society you can find great images of that rose
https://ruususeura.ruususeura.fi/a-suom ... plena.html

There is a lot of midsummer rose in the Michigan area because a lot of Finnish immigrants moved there and a lot of their descendants still live there and there is still this rose in their gardens. The rose thrives even untreated from generation to generation.
Becky Weeks from Copper Harbor, Michigan likes the rose very much and she uses it for rose breeding because of its winter hardiness and great fall colors.
https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.22638.2

Br,
Hannu

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