Yellow blend rugosa hybrid

[Rob Byrnes]

This rugosa hybrid has micro-mini flowers and leaves. The bud is yellow and peach opening to a single to semi-double yellow base with a pink overlay. Parentage is Nyveldt’s White x 13-1. The flower is about .75 inches and has glandular sepals. I’m going to assume that this one is a triploid but will be hoping for some fertility either way. I’ve got several buds on this three-year-old plant.

https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l. ... 1013&tab=1

[roseseek]

How fun! Congratulations, Rob!

[Rob Byrnes]

Thank you Kim!

[minutifolia]

Very interesting! I like the soft dawn shades. I hope it is fertile!

[mntlover]

How pretty! If it proves fertile, what are your thoughts for how you plan to use it? Seems like a lot of possibilities.
Duane

[bvanderhoek]

Lovely! What a great color! It's so hard to convince a Rugosa to be yellow, and you have done it.

[Larry Davis]

Very good result.

My problem with 13-1 is that it is not reliably winter-hardy out in the elements in our winters which rarely dip below zero. I had hoped it would do better with one parent being Orange Surprise which is ([Carefree Beauty x Rise N Shine a.k.a Pink single] x [Carefree copper= Carefree Beauty x Austrian Copper]) x First Impression, of Jim Sproul. Orange Surprise gets mildew and !st Imp gets B.S. here and is very winter tender. The product 13-1 is resistant to both my strain(s) of B.S. and mildew but freezes back some.

I hope that the rugosa hardiness improves the new result. Orange Surprise is very mini. 13-1 is reasonably small. I ended up with a rose called Big Surprise which looks exactly like Orange Surprise except that everything is bigger and it is more winter hardy. It reaches about 2 ft. Not sure what was the pollen parent but I'm pretty sure that Orange Surprise was the female parent. It never yielded enough pollen to bother with crosses in that direction.

OrSup has pretty strong miniaturizing tendencies in my experience, no matter what the pollen donor. Even # 1100 (Carefree Beauty x Carefree Copper) gives a bunch of minis that are very free blooming so far this spring (first 2 flower cycles). And they have a flower color and size much like your seedling.

So I wonder if the yellow + pink coloring on your rugosa may be a carry-through of genes from the Austrian Copper side of the family. Does the yellow fade, leaving the pink later on? How long does it hold petals? I have a hard time finding roses that will hold petals more than about 3 days at average temps.

I hope you have decent fertility, especially with rugosas.

[Paul G. Olsen]

'Nyveldt's White' may be classified as a Rugosa but that's a stretch since at the most it's 25% Rosa rugosa. In my opinion only a rose cultivar having at least 50% Rosa rugosa in its parentage can be classified as a Rugosa.

The pedigree of this cultivar is also highly debatable. It's unlikely a white flower would be produced from the three species in its pedigree having pink or red flowers. There is also no morphological evidence that Rosa nitida is in its pedigree. This species is also eliminated because as the staminate parent this cultivar would only be once blooming and 'Nyveldt's White' can repeat its flowering.

It seems more likely that Rosa x paulii is in the parentage of 'Nyveldt's White'. Since Rosa arvensis is a parent of this species hybrid, it would explain the white flowers of 'Nyveldt's White'. It would also explain why this cultivar can have an arching growth habit and why its canes are extra thorny, given the viciousness of Rosa x paulii.

[Plazbo]

'Nyveldt's White' may be classified as a Rugosa but that's a stretch since at the most it's 25% Rosa rugosa. In my opinion only a rose cultivar having at least 50% Rosa rugosa in its parentage can be classified as a Rugosa.

It could be closer to 50% if none of the cinnamomea chromosomes were passed on and no recombination had occurred...things are rarely an even split, half of the parent doesn't mean a an equal portion of each grandparent. On the flip side could also be a lot less. Even if you look at it from the number of chromosomes, 7, not breaking that down evenly.

I'd be looking more towards defining characteristics than statistical averages that often aren't that applicable at an individual level.

[Rob Byrnes]

Very interesting! I like the soft dawn shades. I hope it is fertile!

Thank you and I hope so too!

[Rob Byrnes]

Lovely! What a great color! It's so hard to convince a Rugosa to be yellow, and you have done it.

Thank you Betsy.

[Rob Byrnes]

Very good result.

My problem with 13-1 is that it is not reliably winter-hardy out in the elements in our winters which rarely dip below zero. I had hoped it would do better with one parent being Orange Surprise which is ([Carefree Beauty x Rise N Shine a.k.a Pink single] x [Carefree copper= Carefree Beauty x Austrian Copper]) x First Impression, of Jim Sproul. Orange Surprise gets mildew and !st Imp gets B.S. here and is very winter tender. The product 13-1 is resistant to both my strain(s) of B.S. and mildew but freezes back some.

I hope that the rugosa hardiness improves the new result. Orange Surprise is very mini. 13-1 is reasonably small. I ended up with a rose called Big Surprise which looks exactly like Orange Surprise except that everything is bigger and it is more winter hardy. It reaches about 2 ft. Not sure what was the pollen parent but I'm pretty sure that Orange Surprise was the female parent. It never yielded enough pollen to bother with crosses in that direction.

OrSup has pretty strong miniaturizing tendencies in my experience, no matter what the pollen donor. Even # 1100 (Carefree Beauty x Carefree Copper) gives a bunch of minis that are very free blooming so far this spring (first 2 flower cycles). And they have a flower color and size much like your seedling.

So I wonder if the yellow + pink coloring on your rugosa may be a carry-through of genes from the Austrian Copper side of the family. Does the yellow fade, leaving the pink later on? How long does it hold petals? I have a hard time finding roses that will hold petals more than about 3 days at average temps.

I hope you have decent fertility, especially with rugosas.

I ended up losing 13-1 over one of my winters but did get to use it a lot in a couple of seasons and have some descendants of it. I also have one descendant of Orange Surprise that's a 2.5 foot shrub with beautiful red canes that has not bloomed since 2017. The pollen parent is Prairie Peace. I'm holding off on tossing this one to see what the flowers will look like so I'm being patient. Hopefully it blooms next season.

The color of NW13-1 fades after a few days to white with a green/yellow-ish 'halo'. The base of the petals basically. The latest blossom has been open for about 4 days now and is fading in color.

I'm hoping for some fertility and some hardiness as well. If this one has some fertility and you have any interest I could send plant material your way.

I've been using your 14-4 as well. A lot of white singles so far but I did have one bloom this week that's got some peach and pink. A single. Another is white but what interests me is that it has many petals for a first bloom. It may have an 'Austin' look to it and it has good scent. I'll be looking at using 15-1 for the first time this season.

[Larry Davis]

That fade is very interesting. I would have expected that the yellow would go and the pink would hold. That's what happens to almost every orange, apricot, gold flower that I breed. Does this stay green or drop its petals cleanly? If this one doesn't get a lot of B.S. or mildew, I'd love to try using it for something. Crossing it back with some of my others might produce an interesting effect. Just a couple days I go I was looking at a large single that fades with the same pattern but going white around the outside and holding a nice yellow halo. At the moment I can't recall where it came from but it was an odd cross I do recall. I'm doing more and more of those at the limits crosses.

[Larry Davis]

The rose I referred to above is still holding its petals after quite a few days. The cross was Brite Eyes x Above and Beyond. It is one of the few juvenile bloomers I got out of well over 100 seedlings. I think these are real crosses because so far as I can see, Brite Eyes OP gives many more repeat bloomers thought I can't say for sure that all are. Most OP seedlings look very much like Brite Eyes in color (photoblastic pink outer petal parts) and form (not much once out of the bud).

[Plazbo]

The cross was Brite Eyes x Above and Beyond. It is one of the few juvenile bloomers I got out of well over 100 seedlings. I think these are real crosses because so far as I can see, Brite Eyes OP gives many more repeat bloomers thought I can't say for sure that all are.

On a slight tangent because it's related to something I was searching on these forums a few weeks back. Would you assume that's because of Above and Beyond only have half the required china genes to rebloom or due to both parents being climbers?

There were a few older posts on here suggesting climbers often don't bloom their first year. The search back through the forums was because I was deciding between two newer Kordes (mauves Quick Silver is climbing but has some fragrance, Tangles isn't climbing but has no fragrance), I went with Tangles but it seems riskier being an Australian only release (which raises questions on why only here and not in europe...)

[Paul G. Olsen]

Plazbo,

When you are criticizing my comments, whether it's on the RHA Forum or HMF Roses, have the ethics and courtesy to sign your full name. Otherwise, you are being disrespectful towards me and that's not acceptable.

Paul G Olsen

[roseseek]

Kordes released Table Mountain in South Africa in 1990 because it mildewed in Germany but SA hadn't that issue. When it began receiving trophies for exhibiting, the release was more wide spread. Tangles may have been only released in Australia because that is the one which performed better there than elsewhere, or it simply could be the one the introducers were willing to pay the price for. Eyes for You was released in Europe but not officially in the US. We went with Bull's Eye. Why? Per Tom Carruth, Week's tried it for nearly three years and couldn't get it to produce a minimum of 60% Grade 1 plants in production. As he stated to me, "we couldn't get it to grow!" Bull's Eye met their minimum production requirements, however Bull's Eye mildews while Eyes is impervious to disease in the zones in which I have grown it. For breeding, it's worth is questionable as the reports are that most houses have removed it from breeding because its offspring tend to "run rampant". There could be any number of reasons why you can get the one but no one else can.

[Rob Byrnes]

That fade is very interesting. I would have expected that the yellow would go and the pink would hold. That's what happens to almost every orange, apricot, gold flower that I breed. Does this stay green or drop its petals cleanly? If this one doesn't get a lot of B.S. or mildew, I'd love to try using it for something. Crossing it back with some of my others might produce an interesting effect. Just a couple days I go I was looking at a large single that fades with the same pattern but going white around the outside and holding a nice yellow halo. At the moment I can't recall where it came from but it was an odd cross I do recall. I'm doing more and more of those at the limits crosses.

I believe that when the flower falls off the color may be all white. The blossoms that have bloomed so far have all dropped off cleanly so I'm guessing there might not be female fertility but that's a guess. If that's the case I hope there is some pollen fertility. The plant has very good disease resistance and I'm hoping there will be some repeat bloom. This is one that I'd like to cross with something like Campfire to increase the yellow and hardiness.

Would you like me to try to root you a plant or do you prefer bud wood?

[Rob Byrnes]

Larry,

Here are a few 13-1 offspring that I kept to work with before I lost it to winter.

Pretty Lady x 13-1

(Royal Edward x Petit Pink) x 13-1

13-1 x (Red Dawn x Suzanne)

[Rob Byrnes]

Larry:

And two more

13-1 x Campfire

Petit Pink x 13-1.

Petit Pink x 13-1 was a mildew magnet so it got tossed last week but it was a nice yellow.