The autumnal Musk rose of Herrmann had dark and shining leaves, hoary beneath. He also wrote, "Floret per totum autumnum usque in hyemem, flores autem primo statim die marcedscunt." So, his Rosa moschata was very similar to what we now have, but not exactly the same.MidAtlas wrote: ↑Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:42 pm"Musk rose" has long been applied to species other than Rosa moschata of Herrmann. The "musk rose" of Shakespeare is widely thought to have been R. arvensis; R. sempervirens was also associated, as Bauhin's 1623 name of Rosa moschata sempervirens makes clear. The "dark and shining" leaf descriptions would likely refer to the latter species. And, when the R. moschata that we know was largely supplanted in England by R. brunonii, leading to the incorrect assumption that R. moschata was a once-blooming species, it took Graham Thomas' careful sleuthing to rediscover the true species and then reintroduce it into cultivation there from a single plant. That was not quite the situation in the United States, although the rose had become rather obscure over time, probably being found more often in old southern cemeteries than in gardens until interest was somewhat reignited.