Agnes as parent?

A meeting place for rose breeders.
mntlover
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm
Location: Mazama, WA

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73823Post mntlover
Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:42 pm

Thanks for the heads up! I found it listed (but out of stock) at high country. I signed up to get email, along with 18 others. There is apparently and interest in these roses. Perhaps it is because there aren't many places carrying them, so we all go to one place. But I'm glad there are places still keeping them available!
What success have people had with Lillian Gibson? Which way have you used her? What types of crosses have been sussessful?
Thanks!
Duane

sjyyjsygfly
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:46 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73842Post sjyyjsygfly
Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:20 pm

应该可以的,除非确定不育。有时候需要特殊的配对。用混合花粉授粉,记下父本名字,如果得到果实,再一个个配对试验。不行你就用马萨德的ventilo

Should be able to, unless confirmed infertility. Sometimes it takes a special pairing. Pollinate with a mixture of pollen, write down the paternal name, and if you get the fruit, pair it off one by one. No, you can use the Massad Ventilo

mntlover
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm
Location: Mazama, WA

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73845Post mntlover
Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:55 pm

Thanks! I'll test multiple pollens. Good idea to then separate and test indiviudally!
Duane

MidAtlas
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73849Post MidAtlas
Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:33 pm

I haven't tried pollinating it with everything, but every attempt I've made to use 'Lillian Gibson' as a seed parent failed completely. All of the direct descendants I've seen listed (My Hero, Salmon Impressionist, and indirectly, Paloma Blanca) have listed it as a pollen parent. To save yourself some time and pollen, you might want to do the same!

Stefan

mntlover
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm
Location: Mazama, WA

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73851Post mntlover
Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:31 pm

Thanks! Time gets used up enough in this endeavor, without wasting it.
Is there anyone who would have extra pollen from Lillian Gibson this next season to share?
Some of my more cold hardy breeders are young cuttings working to get established, so it will be a few
years before I can begin crossing with them in any numbers.
Duane

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73856Post rikuhelin1
Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:31 pm

My observations agree with Stefan’s when taken as whole and compared against too sparse a hip production on my LGs for the south exposure examples. Also surrounded by various rose types. Mind you Agatha is worse - never seen a hip.

If u can’t get pollen from US source drop me a note. I still owe u Jamie - missed last year again when l remembered due to move out for phase 2 of major renos.
Riku

david zlesak
Posts: 507
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73857Post david zlesak
Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:59 pm

Over the years when I lived in St. Paul I repeatedly collected the limited op seed of Lilian Gibson and raised it. There were just a seed or 2 or 3 in the hips that formed. The garden had polyanthas around it and other repeat bloomers. The seedlings looked to be polyantha influenced typically with the smaller leaflets, etc. All were one time bloomers and when they'd bloom it was easy to see the poly influence. I suspect that my LG is likely homozygous for one time bloom. It is hard for me to imagine and see the influence of LG in My Hero and Salmon Impressionist and I wonder if maybe there was a bee or something that came by later and maybe contaminated those crosses. I read Neils Hansen may have grouped similar seedlings from a particular line together and gave them a name and distributed them so there may be different genotypes/seedlings from different generations, etc. called the same thing. Maybe there was a different genotype with a masked repeat bloom allele that expressed itself in My Hero and Salmon Impressionist. I don't know how accurate that description of grouped genotypes sold under a name is or if that is the case specifically for LG. I do have an op seedling that does seem to have a very strong influence of 'Gertrude Jeykl', which was growing next to LG. It does have a bit of stray late season bloom. I assume that may be due to that A181 allele of the flowering gene discussed in the other thread that seems to express itself almost like a dominant allele. GJ basically seems to follow the pattern here as being a one time bloomer with a bit of stray repeat later in the season. I need to get a LG going again at my new place. A friend liked to use it as rootstock for cold climates. It is a hardy and beautiful rose indeed. I never used it as a male parent, but suspect, like mentioned, it would prove to be more efficient to generate offspring than using it as a female parent.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73858Post rikuhelin1
Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:43 pm

Good info offering David … paint me green with envy you likely have a Gertie and hardy rose cross.

Have you tried Gertie formally with other hardies e.g. RDxS or IS or Laxa or Spinos/Altiaca(sp?) ?

I will persists due to fragrance and bloom form … besides if RD (absolutely “0” hardiness for me) work as female with Suzanne there got to be a fluke waiting for me to find in the gardens.
Riku

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73859Post rikuhelin1
Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:19 pm

Forgot last year was the first time the Gertie's did not bloom - grew strongly and tall for here and for past 15 years +/-.

They have been reliable tender bloomers (protected by south facing wall), and only protected by minimal dump of peat moss around base.

Rebloom occasionally happens on late growth but has to be a good season (hot in late August and September). Repeat is not a priority of mine as repeaters are outnumbered about 10 to 1 in my garden stock. Nice trait to develop though but there is limited cane hardy available for my garden (been there, done it and paid for it) except rugosas.

Best-surviving crown hardy repeaters from my planting selections seems to be John Franklin and The Hunter - the former a agreed to id from a knowledgeable friend. It lay hidden for years after other ex wiped out due winter kill. Yanked a huge Huey rootstock beside it but spared the non id rose. As l recalled it seemed to comeback, grew taller (lax canes) each year, bloomed (red double) and keep blooming unlike it original unknown ex neighbour, and its rootstock.

It has become a reliable late season nearly continuous bloomer (3 or 4 always on until freeze up).
Riku

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73860Post rikuhelin1
Sun Jan 30, 2022 3:34 pm

Forgot again, should of included Isabelle and RDxS under repeaters until freeze up … and “cane hardy “… don't remember formal def … eg repeater, remontant, continuous etc..
Riku

mntlover
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm
Location: Mazama, WA

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73861Post mntlover
Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:16 pm

David, have you checked that L.G x Gertrude Jeckyl seedling for viability? That is one of the crosses I would have attempted.
Did it have fragrance in the seedling?
Perhaps having something like Gertrude Jeckyl x Applejack or Gertrude Jeckyl x (Red Dawn x Suzanne) to cross it with could be beneficial?
A lot of crosses like that I am not expecting to get repeat bloom, or at least not very much. But I am hoping to develop enough different seedlings of that sort to cross with one another. Hopefully some will have a bit more repeat and bring it into the others. Another reason why I think I'll have to have seedlings that only gain a little more cold hardiness, so they retain better repeat and fragrance. But I will need others that have more cold hardiness to cross them with. Figure it is a very long haul plan!

Has anyone had much success with Red Dawn x Suzanne? Which direction seemed most benenficial?
Duane

MidAtlas
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73863Post MidAtlas
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:40 am

I just happen to have some seeds stratifying right now from crossing Gertrude Jekyll with 'Applejack' last season--that combination seems to have been a fairly fertile one. I'm not too sure what to expect from the seedlings, since both parents are rather lacking in disease resistance here. Gertrude Jekyll has proven to be highly susceptible to black spot, and 'Applejack' has fairly disease-prone foliage in summer and its canes have been vulnerable sudden dieback (maybe from disease or borers) in my climate. At least I had a good supply of 'Applejack' pollen to work with before my oldest plant suddenly died last summer.

Compared with 'Applejack', 'Lillian Gibson' has so far had better foliar disease resistance over the growing season, and it also seems to have superior cane health here. Its relatively smooth, purplish-red winter stems are beautiful. I've pivoted to the idea of using 'Lillian Gibson' only as a pollen parent after determining these last two seasons that it really isn't inclined to produce seed. My plant still isn't very big, so there's a chance it could become more flexible as it matures, but it might still be a bit like trying to get 'Applejack' to cooperate as a seed parent in crosses. It's technically possible, but only with a lot of time, patience, and pollen, or maybe just luck.

The only offspring of 'Lillian Gibson' that I've grown is Buck's Paloma Blanca, which had extremely poor black spot resistance here and no discernable fragrance. I'm inclined to think that its shortcomings have little to do with the relatively small contribution made by 'Lillian Gibson'. Then again, if the pollen also isn't very fertile, maybe there won't be that many seedlings to choose from...

johannesp
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:30 pm

Re: Agnes as parent

Post: # 73878Post johannesp
Wed Feb 02, 2022 12:13 pm

in Edmonton AB Canada we use what I assume is Rosa blanda as a boulevard plant . It is tall more than 2m height hardy but not as hardy as the local diploid Rosa woodsii. There are few prickles on these plants on the upper portions. They are very prone to rust. the bloom on R. blanda is long because there are a large number of buds per stem. The stems are distinctly red not purple like 'Martin Frobisher'.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73879Post rikuhelin1
Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:40 pm

Interesting Jonathan, would you know if the cold tolerant R. blanda in your area, or as whole out west, has been crossed both ways with ease ?

I assume it generally favours one direction based on Scandinavian hybridize feedback that they personally crossed their R. blanda "Herttoniemi" variety both ways. Sure hope my example survives first, thrives second, and blooms third after its first winter in the north garden ... ditto R. Fancofurtana - though got a half dozen backups if they survive the mites by spring - seem pretty resilient to them unlike the rooted Scarlet Rangers.

And yes if you have a small "runner" available in spring of the Edmonton one, I will very happy to trade - prefer no seed as not got that down yet.The runner would go in south gardens.
Riku

MidAtlas
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Agnes as parent?

Post: # 73882Post MidAtlas
Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:14 pm

I wonder, is rust a common rose disease in Edmonton, or is it pretty much exclusive to your boulevard R. blanda? Either way, I wonder where that strain (of R. blanda) might have originated. I don't believe that rust was ever a problem on any of the wild plants that I knew in Minnesota. Some lower leaves would be shed during the growing season, but otherwise, they stayed healthy.

When I lived there, I tried one or two wide crosses using a particularly well-colored form of R. blanda as a seed parent without success (I had high hopes of recovering seedlings from pollen of 'Golden Chersonese' from Joan Monteith), but I did get some "takes" from using its pollen (a seedling from a cross with 'Darlow's Enigma' looked particularly promising, but it was devoured by some creature almost overnight shortly after it was planted and it never recovered). I would love to repeat the latter cross one day.

This past season, I tried using 'Ames Climber' as a pollen parent, and am hoping for some hybrid seedlings from that; it rejected all of the pollen that I threw at it. Of course, the plant was new and rather small.

Stefan

Post Reply