Where did the moss come from?

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Rob Byrnes
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Where did the moss come from?

Post: # 54145Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:25 pm

Any quesses where the mossing on the buds came from on these two?

"Cape Diamond" Marie-Victorin × Louis Jolliet

My 'WGAL-10-01' Westerland x (Golden Angel × L83)

The moss on 'WGAL-10-01' is much like "Cape Diamond" but darker in color and maybe a little bit more of it. Looking at the lineage for both I don't see any obvious moss ancestors.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

kim rupert
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:53 pm

Re: Where did the moss come from?

Post: # 54146Post kim rupert
Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:13 pm

What's to say the "mossing" you're experiencing isn't the glandular texture of the Eglanteria ancestor, intensified through selfing and the rugosa and Wichurana genes? Ralph obtained quite a bit of "mossing" from Rugosa and moss hybrid crosses. Look at MORjerry and Jerry Rugosa 44 Stripe. Something behind there lined up to express "the mossing factor".

Reportedly, Fedtschenkoana is behind Autumn Damask. I would bet dollars to donuts Autumn Damask is behind Gloire des Rosomanes. "Moss" appears in a number of the Fedtschenkoana seedlings. DLFED 3 expresses it best from that line of breeding. Its sibling, DLFED 4, reminds me of GdR quite a bit. GdR demonstrates a bit of the "mossing factor" on its sepals and definitely has the glandular scent of mossing. GdR comes into your mix through Charlotte Armstrong and McGredy's Yellow. Add the exaggerated glandular texture of the multiflora based polys, which enter through Floradora. There is a double dose of Eglantine through Clare Grammerstorf. Wichurana easily expresses the mossing factor. Red Moss Rambler, which also contains the polys through Floradora and the "moss" through his moss hybrids, expresses it quite nicely.

While there appears, at least to me, to be "sources" of mossing, there are also expressors and inhibitors of it. Rugosa and Wichurana both seem quite willing to express it.

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1823
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Where did the moss come from?

Post: # 54170Post Rob Byrnes
Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:54 pm

Kim,

Thank you for your answer to my question. I knew someone would have an answer. What you wrote about the glandular texture of the Eglanteria ancestor and Gloire des Rosomanes makes sense. I'm not familiar either but from the pictures it it makes sense. Hopefully the trait will be passed on.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

kim rupert
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:53 pm

Re: Where did the moss come from?

Post: # 54174Post kim rupert
Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:02 pm

You're welcome, Rob. I could be way off base, and it's definitely not "definitive". One thing Ralph repeatedly pointed out is there are often multiple sources for many traits, we just don't realize it. He found miniaturization from Wichurana and multiflora, in addition to the Chinensis source. They arose somewhere, we simply aren't aware of where. Even the Hulthemia "blotch", thought of as being strictly from that source, he showed could be massaged from other sources. Who would have imagined a slight lavender cast to a petal base could be developed into a yellow/red petal? You have to observe as many different types as possible and notice what potentially arose from what.

mntlover
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:11 pm

Re: Where did the moss come from?

Post: # 73293Post mntlover
Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:34 pm

I wanted to resurrect this question with another question:
Has anyone had any success in carrying on the moss in Cape Diamond?
If so, was this using it as seed parent, or as pollen parent?
So far it has rejected all pollens I have placed on it, but it is young. Late this season
it looks like it is finally starting to set hips. I am hoping next year it will work as a seed parent.
I was just wondering if I should pursue crossing it with my mosses, or if other directions would be better
to focus on.
I would love to see a repeat blooming moss fully hardy in zone 4.
Duane

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