What worked, what didn't...

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Fara Shimbo
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What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45735Post Fara Shimbo
Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:59 pm

Hybridising season is over, partly because my once-bloomers are done for the year and also because it's hard to stay outside very long with all the smoke from the wildfires. We did have some relatively clear time yesterday, so despite temperatures in which eggs dropped on the hood of a car simply turn to charcoal, I went outside to see what took and what didn't.

Curiously, R. woodsii ultramontana, which I crossed with almost everything I have, has produced fine hips, and all non-species with which I crossed it have nice-looking hips as well.

My zillions of varieties of R. arkansana, which I used only as a pollen parent, was a little more iffy. It took with the OGRs, but not with any of the modern roses.

R. persica was used only as a pollen parent because while it sets hips, there is never anything in them. FMM, 'New Dawn' and 'Tuscany Superb' all have large hips, but whether any seeds inside will be viable, we'll have to wait and see.

Curiously, none of the crosses I made on the 8th and 9th of June took. I haven't a clue why, but looking at my notes those were especially smoky mornings, and I wonder if that made any difference.

Mongol's Hat does not seem to be willing to actually set hips. The hips aren't dropping off, but they're not growing, either.

42, however, is doing very well. I only allowed it one hip this year, hoping that instead it would consider making suckers so I can

spread it around. I crossed quite a few roses, including 'Golden Celebration' and 'Dragon's Blood' with it, and all have nice hips growing.

The summer has been extremely hot and dry and already some of the hips are showing color. Fortunately those @#$% beetles have not been a real problem this year. Now the problems are rabbits and voles, but Vinny, and Seymour the Barn Cat can deal with those.

How's the hybridising for you this year?
[size=small][color=#9900FF]Fara Shimbo, Certified Public Nuisance
Spotted Rose Ranch, Hygiene Colorado, altitude: 1590 meters/5200 feet, USDA Zone 4b or 5a, depending on who you ask. Sunset Zone 1.[/color][/size]

kim rupert
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45736Post kim rupert
Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:28 pm

I'm sorry you're still having to deal with the smoke, Fa. I understand feeling your season is over since the once bloomers are finished. I felt that way after concentrating on Banksiae lutescens and the Hugonis seedling, but I'm still at it! Paul's 42-03-02 is being pressed into service to recreate many of the crosses I'd done with 0-47-19 to see what variations on the same themes might be possible.

Jim Sproul's L56-1, the single, deep red, intensely healthy "mini" has over fifty hips forming on it and still pushes out new candelabras and flowers. It's an amazing plant so far. I don't know how it will germinate, but I emasculated before the sepals began pulling apart to prevent self pollination and it seems to have taken with everything I put on it. I've done a lot of Gina's Rose with it, First Impression (also VERY impressive!), Art Nouveau, Lynnie, Pretty Lady, Cal Poly, Pink Petticoat and the Hugonis seedling. Things appear successful enough that I am honestly beginning to hope quite a few decide to fall off as I'm really not sure I can handle all of them later on!

pacificjade
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45746Post pacificjade
Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:21 am

What didnt work:

Palmegarten Frankenwhatever x Rosa hirtula. I think it would have set, but the air was like water when the pollen was viable =( I am sick of this being the 2nd year in a row for spring lasting until July, lol.
[color=#006400]Zone 8B, Pacific Northwest, USA[/color]

Neil
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45749Post Neil
Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:40 am

Not all of my parent plants have even bloomed yet and I don't like gathering wet pollen. Tried a couple crosses today(mostly sunny) and the water just ran out of the flowers. This is summer(?), yesterday was 55 and rainning off and on.

Neil

jbergeson
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45756Post jbergeson
Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:22 am

Ah, soon hip pinching season. I wrap most of my crosses, so the only way to tell if they've took is to pinch them. My poor roses get harassed...I can imagine them complaining amidst themselves about this weirdo pinching their hips three times a day.

It's too early to tell on most crosses, but Carefree Beauty seems to have set hips with a blend of Oso Happy Smoothie and R. xanthina.
Joe Bergeson
Zone 3, NW Minnesota

Fara Shimbo
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45759Post Fara Shimbo
Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:46 am

I only leave my crosses wrapped for a day or two, and generally I can tell that a hip has taken by the fact that the sepals begin to lift back up. After that I just check for size and @#$% beetle/rabbit damage. I sprayed a bunch of them with Bitter Apple to ward off the invaders.

I have noticed though that the hips which were pollinated by bees are a lot larger than the hips I pollinated. (I have a humongous catnip plant in the rosary and I think that an entire bee colony is on it from dawn to dusk. Odd rust-colored bees that I've never seen before. Also, many, many butterflies I've never seen before!)
[size=small][color=#9900FF]Fara Shimbo, Certified Public Nuisance
Spotted Rose Ranch, Hygiene Colorado, altitude: 1590 meters/5200 feet, USDA Zone 4b or 5a, depending on who you ask. Sunset Zone 1.[/color][/size]

Neil
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45761Post Neil
Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:16 am

If those bees are like small bumble bees with orangish spot(new here also) they get real aggresive when near their hives which was in one of my bird houses for two years and couldn't get rid of. Finally took the pole down one night so I could really deal with them.

Neil

Fara Shimbo
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45783Post Fara Shimbo
Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:20 am

No, no orange spots, and the bees aren't aggressive at all. It's just good to see so many of them, what with all the local bee keepers complaining about colony collapse.
[size=small][color=#9900FF]Fara Shimbo, Certified Public Nuisance
Spotted Rose Ranch, Hygiene Colorado, altitude: 1590 meters/5200 feet, USDA Zone 4b or 5a, depending on who you ask. Sunset Zone 1.[/color][/size]

jsproul_member
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45788Post jsproul_member
Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:23 pm

Hi Kim,

Regarding L56-1, it does seem to set hips with just about anything. Average seeds per hip for me is about 10, with the average germination rate being about 45-50%. Although they will rebloom with hips on them, to keep the plants blooming their best in our front flower bed, I have to keep them deadheaded. I have 4 or 5 plants of it that I am using for seed parents.

What has worked very well for me this year that I have used for the first time in planned crosses is 'Darlow's Enigma'. I was afraid that it might not accept modern Hulthemia pollen, but the hips that were hand pollinated seem larger than the hips that are OP. Another surprise for me this year has been "M166". This is the fourth year that I have had it. I gave up on it last year, when it produced no hips during the first 2 years and none of its pollen set hips on other roses. This year though after seeing another one of my pollen sterile Hulthemias setting hips beautifully with everything put on it, I decided to try pollinating "M166" one more year. It is also setting hips with nearly every pollination. "M166" will be introduced next year as 'Pomegranate Lemonade'. I know nothing about it's germination rate, but at least there will be seeds to plant of it this coming winter.

kim rupert
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45789Post kim rupert
Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:31 pm

Thanks Jim! ONLY about 50% germination rate is calming me a bit! LOL!

[attachment 915 DSCN1987.JPG]

I am eager to see what the Hugonis seedling does with Sunburn.

[attachment 916 DSCN1966.JPG]

jrichardson
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45830Post jrichardson
Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:37 pm

Hip harvesting has begun! When the 100 degree temps. start showing up hips can start to turn and shrivel overnight so I am now making daily checks and harvesting a few at a time. Miss Bloomsalot has set a hip with almost 90 percent of the pollen that I threw on her and each cross was unique so I am anxious to see what comes of these crosses. Several new roses were added this spring and I can report that Eyeconic Lemonade did quite well; although the number of seeds per hip is small, the seeds themselves are big and plump. Irish Mist has set three nice hips. I received a dark purple, gallica-type rose from Rogue Valley (it was supposed to be Lavender Pinocchio). It had three blooms and all three set a hip. Ebb Tide set quite well, the only hip harvested so far was crossed with Archduke Charles and produced 12 seeds.

This Spring, Natalie Anderson, of Texas A&M spoke to our local Rose Society. One of the things she mentioned was using a natural bristle brush in pollinating roses. I have always just used my fingers but decided to try the brush this year and I have to admit that I believe it has improved the number of seeds produced per hip. Thanks, Nat!
Joan Richardson
Zone 8
Deep In The Heart Of Hot Dry Texas

jriekstins
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45832Post jriekstins
Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:08 pm

This is purely anecdotal, but this summer I used a red sable watercolor brush that I had thrown into a drawer ( one of my children had pretty much ruined it for watercolor by scrubbing something) however the brush was very intact and I was surprized with how evenly the pollen spread over all the stigmas especially when they were quite uneven. I could see the pollen being deposited effortlessly into every crevice and making contact with all ovules, and this did appear quite superior to the plain old fingertip. But the downside is having to clean it between different pollens-it was pretty clear that it was not going to be a wipe it clean and continue sort of operation. So I used it a few times when I was using the same pollen for several applications. I can see how how this would be great to use if you had great numbers of seed parents utilizing the same pollen, but other than having a dedicated brush per pollen type or fastidious cleaning between pollen types, I cannot see how this would work.
]Jackie, SoCal., zone 9b,coastal foothills

dmears
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45833Post dmears
Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:27 pm

To brush or not brush with pollen. Joan and Jackie and of course others, the question "is how do you clean the brushes" before using it again.

pacificjade
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45834Post pacificjade
Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:45 pm

That is why I always used dark, hard plastic bristled brushes made for kids. You can wipe them on your pants completely dry from water in 3 seconds flat.
[color=#006400]Zone 8B, Pacific Northwest, USA[/color]

gvarden
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45835Post gvarden
Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:18 am

Must be honest, when I use an index finger to pollinate sometimes this pollination method cannot reach the deeper set stigma, so if I want to reach those deeper ones, I have to use unnecessary force to pry apart those taller stigma which are in the way....when doing this I feel that this could be damaging female parts sometimes.. I actually might swap over to dark plastic brushes come spring time (September), for the pollinating.

gvarden
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45836Post gvarden
Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:22 am

I am sure Nat Anderson has previously mentioned dipping brushes in alcohol to get rid of viable pollen between pollinations. It dries very fast in air, no need to wipe..... that right?

Fara Shimbo
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45840Post Fara Shimbo
Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:54 am

For pollinating, I've had great success using these:

Aluminum Containers With Glass Lids

They have a number of very salutary advantages:

--You know exactly how much pollen you have;

--Since, after you shake the container a few times, the pollen becomes electrostatically stuck to the glass lid, you use the lid itself, rubbing with a circular motion, to put the pollen onto the stigmas;

--The glass itself spreads the stigmas, so you can be sure you get pollen on all of them, and you can see how much pollen adhered to the stigmas;

--No need to wash brushes!

Oh, and further to the point of what worked and what didn't, the biggest hip in my garden thus far is 'Tuscany Superb' by R. woodsii ultramontana. I can't wait to see these flowers!
[size=small][color=#9900FF]Fara Shimbo, Certified Public Nuisance
Spotted Rose Ranch, Hygiene Colorado, altitude: 1590 meters/5200 feet, USDA Zone 4b or 5a, depending on who you ask. Sunset Zone 1.[/color][/size]

SimonV
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45841Post SimonV
Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:19 am

Fara Shimbo wrote:
For pollinating, I've had great success using these:

Aluminum Containers With Glass Lids

They have a number of very salutary advantages:

--You know exactly how much pollen you have;

--Since, after you shake the container a few times, the pollen becomes electrostatically stuck to the glass lid, you use the lid itself, rubbing with a circular motion, to put the pollen onto the stigmas;

--The glass itself spreads the stigmas, so you can be sure you get pollen on all of them, and you can see how much pollen adhered to the stigmas;

--No need to wash brushes!
+1

Been doing this for years now... doesn't work on flat stigmas like on rugosa... the finger applicator works well in this case though ;)
Tasmania, Australia.[url=http://www.anbg.gov.au/gardens/research/hort.research/zones.html] Australian Gardening Zone[/url] 3. US zone 9B bordering on 8. [url=http://rosebreedingdownunder.blogspot.com.au/]Me[/url].

lizlee
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45853Post lizlee
Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:09 pm

My confession is that I use an ordinary paintbrush for all my pollinations and I don't really worry about pollen contamination. I do wipe the brush on my shorts when I change pollen sources. (1) I'm not doing genetics experiments here, I am just making breeding crosses. (2) The odds of a few stray pollen grains from the previous pollen source out-competing the multitudes of pollen grains from the intended source are pretty long.
Elizabeth Lee
Backyard rose breeder
Zone 5a
Sunset zone 40
Guelph, ON - Canada

Neil
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Re: What worked, what didn't...

Post: # 45854Post Neil
Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:52 pm

Wow, you must have a lot of pollen. Would that be a 2inch, or a three inch paint brush.

Neil

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