cherry frost & lemon drift

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Larry Davis
Posts: 430
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:37 pm
Location: Kansas

cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69511Post Larry Davis
Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:51 pm

On the same page with Pretty Polly series, which look like great roses, there is a bright red by Julie Overom. Has anyone up north (WI, MN etc) seen Cherry Frost in action during its limited distribution last year? Or during earlier testing phase? Seems like it is a much bigger bush than the Polly series, if not frozen down. Could be a source of real scarlet or crimson if fertile.

Also in the Star catalog, Lemon Drift is mentioned but says distribution will be limited to the west, whatever that means. Is that an issue with BS or cercospora or something like that? Seems to me it might offer another approach to yellow shrubs. I was very disappointed with Popcorn Drift which fades to dreary white along our hot highway and parking lot scene on campus. Doesn't drop those burned petals until too late. It sports back to Apricot Drift moderately readily, maybe 3 of 30 plants grow a branch of Apricot. But Apricot is quite infertile as a mother, and short of pollen for tests the other direction.

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69514Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:14 am

Larry,

I think Joe Bergeson has some experience with Cherry Frost. Also, I've had some success using Apricot Drift as a seed parent with Thrive as the pollen parent. AD also sets some OP hips here as well.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

david zlesak
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69515Post david zlesak
Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:39 am

Hi Larry,

Julie's rose is amazing. It is very hardy for us with minimal tip dieback in Minneapolis at Lyndale Park Rose Garden over the years. It is triploid, but does set a limited number of op hips. It gets 5-6' in our area with a generally upright and slightly spreading form. The flowers are abundant and each is a couple inches or slightly more wide. The color is a great red that holds throughout the life of the petals. It is very healthy here too with minimal cercospora compared to other nearby growing varieties.

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69516Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:15 am

Great information David! I think Joe Bergeson has used Cherry Frost as a pollen parent as well with some success. I read someplace yesterday that the parentage will be released once the patent is approved and I''m very interested to see what Julie used as parents. I look forward to receiving my plant of CF this spring.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

jbergeson
Posts: 1406
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69518Post jbergeson
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:02 pm

I've had Cherry Frost growing here (Zone 3b) for a number of years. It gets about 3-4' and did get a bit of cercospora in a tough location but definitely has the wow factor with masses of medium red blossoms. It dies back to about a foot tall on average.

(Thanks, David, for the update about it growing in Minneapolis.)

It does set seed, but not more than one or two per hip and is easier to use as a pollen parent.

Attached is a photo of Seedling #1027, which is Prairie Joy x Cherry Frost.
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joverom@cheqnet.net

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69556Post joverom@cheqnet.net
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 am

Cherry Frost tends to die back to the snowline here (Northern WI Z3B) or even the crown in a very tough winter, although the -30F we have had this winter brings CF into new and uncharted territory--keep your fingers crossed as our snow cover was pretty limited at the time of the first arctic cold snap here (it lasted almost a week). More severe cold followed with a bit better snow cover and they are saying this is the worst winter we have had in this area in 25 years with respect to cold. No offense to my Canadian neighbors but I have come to hate the term "Alberta Clipper" when talking about winter weather patterns! In general, my CF's winter survival and growth/size experience is similar to Joe's except my plant gets to the 5-6 foot range in the summer. It has tremendous vigor and springs back readily from winter damage so the amount of die-back is really not an issue--it recovers and blooms right on time with everyone else. With less die-back there would probably be more lateral growth produced and even more blooms. During a milder, gray winter it will be tip hardy but I still cut it back to about 3 feet every year and I thin it quite a bit. It has never suckered in the 11 years it has been in the ground--it just sends out lots of new growth each year. I am still a bit hesitant to give out the exact parentage at this time--I know the patent has been applied for but I have not heard if it has yet been approved. However, I can tell you that the mother was a seedling of mine that involved the use of Prairie Lass, Gizmo, and William Booth in its ultimate creation. The father was L83. I stopped using L83 many years ago because of its tendency to pass on leafspot--a true problem in my area. As I have said before, I can count on two hands the number of plants that do not get LS here after many years of testing commercial varieties. So it is hard for me to judge CF with respect to LS--some years it is fine and other years I do have some defoliation. I have never seen BS on it. The blooms are ~2.5 inches and a clear and non-fading red (not really blue red but not orange-red, either). They hold up well--pretty much 5-7 days (very good substance). The petals fall cleanly. As David said, CF will form some hips with 1-2 seeds but it is essential female sterile with respect to crosses. The pollen, on the other hand, is very useful. CF is a very good bloomer and I have counted a cluster of over 40 blooms at the end of one cane. It repeats well and it is probably the heaviest bloomer I have ever produced. I hope that answers a few questions other members might have. Somewhere down the road I will provide a few more specifics on parentage.

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69557Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:15 am

Julie,

I really like your Cherry Frost. Thank you for the updated information. There's some good information there. I look forward to seeing what the actual parentage is after the patent is approved.

I'll be picking up Cherry Frost this spring and look forward to using it as a pollen parent in crosses. Did I read correctly that it took 10 years of testing for it to make it to the market? Congratulations by the way!
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

joverom@cheqnet.net

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69558Post joverom@cheqnet.net
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:44 pm

Hi Rob,

The ten years is close. I think I looked at this seedling for 4 years before I considering sending it for testing (but I had already propagated it and had it ready to go). Conard-Pyle/Star Roses tested it for 4 years at their sites in Pennsylvania and California and then sent it off to several other sites around the country for two years of further testing before making the decision to introduce Cherry Frost (they named my seedling but I do love the name). It also took a bit more time to get the propagation numbers up for sale. So, it was a long process as CP truly screens their possible introductions in a rigorous fashion and I guess you'd have to say that the evaluation is not over yet as now the public needs to make the determination that Cherry Frost performs well enough around the country for it to keep selling. That will take additional time.

Julie

joverom@cheqnet.net

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69559Post joverom@cheqnet.net
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:45 pm

...and thank you for the congratulations, Rob. I do appreciate it! Julie

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69560Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:46 pm

I wish you much success with your rose Julie. :-)

Rob
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

philip_la
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 69561Post philip_la
Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:15 pm

A very nice plant, by all accounts, and if you do a search on this forum, there is a bit of info. Here's one discussion with link's to stories about Julie's introduction:
http://www.rosebreeders.org/forum/viewt ... ost#p67697
(Julie also posted a beautiful response to forum members on the above thread.)

I suspect that roses with introductions limited to the west might be roses with more of a propensity to BS, with perhaps more concern for resistance to rust or mildew, but I don't recall what made me assume that was the reasoning behind the distributions. I wish they offered more info.

One major beef I have with the new Kordes.us rose site is that Star does a blanket "disease-resistant" rating with adjectives, whereas NewFlora had adopted the Kordes-rosen site's approach to differentiating resistance to BS, and to mildew. Merely an inconvenience for the roses one can cross-reference, but several Kordes roses introduced state-side aren't sold in Europe, and vice-versa. (NewFlora purportedly had to convince Kordes in Europe to take a second gander at Lemon Fizz, which they had initially decided not to market.)
Philip F.
Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 70633Post Rob Byrnes
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:17 am

I was happy to find 3 hips on Cherry Frost yesterday. It feels like 1-2 seeds per hip.
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Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 71226Post Rob Byrnes
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:14 am

joverom@cheqnet.net wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:03 am
I am still a bit hesitant to give out the exact parentage at this time--I know the patent has been applied for but I have not heard if it has yet been approved. However, I can tell you that the mother was a seedling of mine that involved the use of Prairie Lass, Gizmo, and William Booth in its ultimate creation. The father was L83.

Somewhere down the road I will provide a few more specifics on parentage.
Julie,

I see that the patent has been approved and published. The parentage is listed as Unnamed Seedling × Unnamed Seedling. Can you be more specific about the parentage now that the patent has been approved? I love your Cherry Frost.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

joverom@cheqnet.net

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 71276Post joverom@cheqnet.net
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:43 pm

Hi Bob,

First, thank you for saying you are enjoying Cherry Frost. I love hearing that.

I have no issues sharing the crosses used to create Cherry Frost now that the patent has been granted--although it is not incorrect to say that it the result of a cross between two unnamed seedlings. One of the earliest seedlings kept in my garden was a cross between (William Booth x Prairie Lass). I evaluated this plant for a number of years before ultimately discarding it for disease issues. It had a 2.5-inch rich red single to semi-double bloom--similar in some ways to William Booth, but bigger and brighter red in color and with a few more petals. It also had the longer canes of William Booth. It was only crown hardy in my garden and mildly susceptible to black spot, but the true problem with it was a later season leaf-spot that caused significant defoliation. Given the fact that I later recognized that William Booth seemed to have a strong tendency to self-pollinate, I can never say for certain that this seedling wasn't the result of a self-pollination of William Booth and not a true cross with Prairie Lass. However, the winter-hardiness of the plant was markedly more tender than William Booth with less than 4-inches of live wood each spring, giving me hope that it was a true cross. Prairie Lass was tender here and did not survive in my garden. The disease issues with this plant had not yet been recognized--at that time leafspot usually took several years to become noticeable--and I considered this one of the hardier seedlings.

In 2004, I crossed the miniature rose Gizmo with pollen from this William Booth x Prairie Lass seedling. The result was a truly delightful rose in so many ways—it had a relatively compact growth (~3 feet) and the foliage was moderate in size between the two parents. Today it would probably be considered a mini-flora in size. The foliage and canes were a rich bright green and the fertile blooms were a 2.5 inch semi-double dark red with no fragrance. It survived one winter outside but was only crown hardy--so I decided to dig it up and move it back into a pot because I wanted to do some work with it. The real Achilles heel for this plant was its susceptibility to blackspot. However, having said that I can tell you that this plant would suddenly drop all its leaves due to BS and then would re-leaf rapidly. For some reason, the canes did not show signs of disease and remained clean and bright green. It seemed like BS just rolled of its back with barely a pause before recovering. In considering the blackspot issues but also the many positive attributes, I decided to try crossing this seedling with L83. At that time L83 had exhibited outstanding BS-resistance in my garden but had not yet started displaying the same leaf-spotting issues that I was beginning to see in its William Booth descendant. The combination of [Gizmo x (William Booth x Prairie Lass)] x L83 resulted in the seedling that became Cherry Frost. From the second year after germination and on it began exhibiting the traits that made it stand out from other seedlings.

roseseek
Posts: 5139
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 71278Post roseseek
Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:48 pm

Congratulations, Julie! Oh, neat! Another fertile triploid with which to play! They provide such interesting, odd results when crossed with weird things!
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Rob Byrnes
Posts: 1814
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: cherry frost & lemon drift

Post: # 71283Post Rob Byrnes
Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:43 pm

Julie,

Thank you for the bit of history regarding the development and parentage of your Cherry Frost. It's always great for me to have an idea of the parentage of roses that I'm using a breeding stock. I've had CF one season and really like like what I'm seeing so far. I was pleased to see that it has some fertility. I wish you the best with this beauty.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

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