see germination from dry hips?

A meeting place for rose breeders.
Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11055Post Rob Byrnes
Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:00 am

I'm hoping you are right Amber. I have a number of what I feel are interesting crosses that I made from 2001-2003 that got lost in a move and were found last fall. After performing the sink/float test I selected random seeds from each cross and cut them open. Surprisingly there were a very high percentage that had what appeared to be viable embryos so I'm keeping my finger

Philip_LA

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11078Post Philip_LA
Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:00 am

On a tangent... Just how accurate is the float/sink test really, and to what extent would one expect it to apply to dessicated seeds?? I've heard that the real efficacy is a bit questionable, and I just wonder if it would have any basis where dried seeds are involved...


Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11087Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:00 am

I can only speak from my recent experience. I used approximately the same sized seeds from sinkers and floaters. Random selection of seeds from both groups showed that the floaters had no embyos while sinkers had plump, white embryos...not a scientific test at all. All of the seeds used in sink/float 'test' were from modern roses/crosses. I don't use the test for species roses or miniature roses as their seeds tend to be generally smaller than modern hybrid seeds.

Today more germination from more of the 4-6 year old seeds:

Cardinal Hume OP

Mystic Meidilland OP

I'm hoping for some germination of old seeds from planned crosses soon.

Henry Kuska

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11090Post Henry Kuska
Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:00 am

What is different between rose seed conditions in 1937 and today?

One possibility is that the years of selecting mainly for flower form since 1937 has resulted in many lines that have lost the ability to form viable seeds.

Another possibility is that the chemicals being sprayed on roses today cause many seeds to be formed defective (either due to some charasteric of the chemical - such as being a systemic or because the chemical killed off the friendly bugs that kept the seed damaging "bad" bugs at bay).

----------------------------------------------------

Of possible interest is the following recent paper about Oak seeds.

http://www.rngr.net/Publications/tpn/46 ... 7.PDF/file

"Regardless of the cause, use of the float method as a means

of ascertaining acorn condition can be expected to result in the rejection of, on average, approximately half of the sound acorns in a collection."

Link: www.rngr.net/Publications/tpn/46/46_4_143_147.PDF/file

Chris Mauchline

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11104Post Chris Mauchline
Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:00 am

I'm glad to see this link. I didn't get my crosses from last year processed, and I had thought they might be dead. This gives me hope to go and try to get them started.

As to the sink/float test, I know that it can vary in effectiveness as to variety. But I have also saved myself from wasted time and hope, if I had enough seeds to test the floaters for viable embryos by slicing a few open. If there isn't any in the floaters I test, I'll check further.

I've also done the same on the sinkers (usually some embryo present).

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11212Post Rob Byrnes
Thu May 03, 2007 1:00 am

Finally, some germination from old seeds from planned crosses. First of these is Leverkusen x Lichtk

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11735Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:00 am

Well, after six months of stratification, germination seems to be speeding up. Today's germinations from seeds 3-4 years old:

Carefree Wonder OP

Christopher Columbus (striped floribunda) OP

Rose Gilardi (Moore's striped miniature) OP

New Dawn x Commander Gillette

I'm excited about the ND x CG seedlings. It would be great to get some thornless canes, excellent disease resistance and repeat bloom. I'm not too concerned about flower color or form in this F1 generation. Hoping for something to use as breeding stock. A wonderful flower would be too much to hope for initially. I would also hope for some nice striped seedlings from RG and/or CC. CW could throw something interesting as well. Looking at the lineage of CC I couldn't figure out where the striping came from.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11736Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:00 am

I forgot one:

Seafoam x Applejack

A semi to double flower, repeat bloom, clean foliage and winter hardiness would be nice traits from this cross. This was another cross I hoped would germinate.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11766Post Rob Byrnes
Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:00 am

Germination today from old seeds from a planned cross: Golden Celebration x Illusion. Hoping for OGR type bloom, fragrance, disease reistance, and hardiness in anything but pink or white.

Robert Rippetoe

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11767Post Robert Rippetoe
Sat Jun 09, 2007 1:00 am

Those sound like some fun crosses Rob. Somehow I don't see yellow coming out of 'Illusion' but anything is possible in roses.

At least you know the next generation will have a better shot at yellow in the offspring.

Amber

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11772Post Amber
Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:00 am

You know, it's really good to know that you can actually store away your hips if you get busy or something. I'd have thought some germination would be possible after 1 or 2 years, but it's surprising to me to hear how good germination seems to be on hips that old.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 11792Post Rob Byrnes
Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:00 am

I agree Robert, yellow might not be a result from 'Illusion'. I'd be very happy with peach tho.

Amber, I'm not getting a high percentage of germination from these old seeds but I'm thrilled that there was any germination at all. If I'm lucky the percentage will increase over the next few weeks.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12013Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:00 am

Today from the 2003 seeds: 'Folksinger' x 'Lemon Delight' I'm hoping for yellow/peach coloring, moss from Moore's Lemon Delight and disease resistance and hardiness from Buck's Folksinger on a plant of smaller stature.

So far I'm not getting huge numbers from each cross from old seeds but I'm getting more than I had hoped for. I think it's worthwhile to use seeds that are old and have been stored in a dry condition. Looks like there is nothing to lose.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12025Post Rob Byrnes
Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:00 am

Not to be left out... 'Dornroschen' OP seedling germination today.

Robert Rippetoe

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12191Post Robert Rippetoe
Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:00 am

Just a suggestion that we require registration for those wishing to post. It might reduce spam attacks.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12248Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:00 am

I'm having good germination from old 'Leverkusen' x 'Lichtkonigin Lucia' seeds but unfortunately the majority seem to suffer from mildew. I have a couple that seem unaffected. I'll keep growing all on to evaluate further in hopes that the 90+ degree/humid weather is a major cause of the mildew. I am disappointed tho from what I've seen so far in the way of mildew resistance as I'm hoping for a nice hary yellow from the group.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12349Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:00 am

A couple of seedlings from Rose Gilardi have bloomed and both are striped. One is red/orange with yellow/cream stripes and semi-double. The other is a mauve/lavender with lighter stripes and is semi-double to double. The lavender striped one appears to be a miniature and the other will be bigger. There are several others about to bloom and one or more might have stripes. These are my first striped seedlings and I was pretty excited to see them when they bloomed. I hope to have pics to post soon.

I also have a yellow seedling from Mystic Meidiland that has several leaves that are variegated. I'm watching this to see if it they are freak leaves or if this is a permanent trait.

Pretty exciting stuff for a change. These are all from the batch of seeds from a few years ago.

Rob Byrnes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12481Post Rob Byrnes
Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:00 am

First of the Pink Meidiland x Nitida Defender and Russelliana OP seeds have started germinating. Hoping for a semi-double, with an 'eye', and healthy leaves. This should be hardy and crossing PM with ND (R. nitida x 'Hansa') I'm hoping for some rebloom. If not in the F1 then maybe F2.

Rob Bynes

Re: see germination from dry hips?

Post: # 12552Post Rob Bynes
Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:00 am

Today's germination is 'Graham Thomas' x 'Goldmoss'. Eight months in the fridge and this is the first germination. Hoping for a yellow OGR bloom with lots of moss.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests