The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

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Johannes_P

The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 8038Post Johannes_P
Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:00 am

I recieved this plant from Brentwood Bay Nur. who got it from Joan Montieth (sp?). several questions have come up-

When looking at the original latin desciption from russia it said that it was related to R. beggiana. Other than having persistant sepal on the hips nothing says that it is a section cassiorhodon. The pistils are also long.

The scent is similar to Rosa feotida and the leaves are similar and are prone to blackspot. The pollen grains are large perhaps sugesting tetraploid when compaired to a polyantha- I know unreliable except where each plant is closely related.

But this theory has holes. The pollen is fertile, blooms very early, the colour bleachs, and the stems are brick red. And the clencher it will sometimes put out double flowers.

Is this rose, Rosa xanthina the old semi double?

I will try to do a chromosome count on the roots but this looks difficult once the plant is in the ground.

Any info would be appreciated.

Robert Rippetoe

Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 8040Post Robert Rippetoe
Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:00 am

Looks distinct from xanthina to me. The growth habit is totally different and this rose suckers extensively. What I grow as xanthina does not.

Joan Monteith

Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 8049Post Joan Monteith
Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:00 am

I got my start from Kim Ruppert. I believe he has some documentation on it, but either I didn't get it or (more likely) misplaced it. My memorey is he got his start from England (perhaps Peter Beales?). Hopefully Kim will reply to this thread.

I will say that my plant is different from what I have as xanthina, hugonis, or primula. It is also hardier than these three. If my memory is correct, the hips are different too.

Robert Rippetoe

Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 8050Post Robert Rippetoe
Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:00 am

Whatever it is, it's fertile.

kim rupert
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 8177Post kim rupert
Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:00 am

Alabukensis came from the Study Plot at The Huntington. Bill Grant sent me a packet of information some years ago, which I can't locate. From what I remember, it's been documented by Soviet botanists. Yes, it's fertile, setting hips all over. They began life here sort of cranberry red and turned black. Unfortunately, I no longer have it.

Robert Rippetoe

Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 8178Post Robert Rippetoe
Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:00 am

I have a nice one here if you'd like it Kim. I also have the double form. I have hips using the pollen of the double form on a few different parents.

Paul G Olsen

Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 10994Post Paul G Olsen
Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:00 am

I obtained the so called Rosa alabukensis from Brentwood Bay Nursery last fall. It is blooming in a greenhouse right now. The single flowers having occasionally a couple extra petals are creamy yellow fading to white. In my opinion, it is a selection of the Altai rose (Rosa spinosissima altaica). Similar characteristics include small foliage, reddish stems, size, form and colour of flowers, and fragrance. It definitely has the distinctive fragrance of the Altai rose that persists in the latter species progeny.

By the way, I have arranged with a greenhouse worker (after teaching her how) to make a cross of it with 'Dr. F.L. Skinner'. I had two plants of 'Dr. F. L. Skinner' propagated from cuttings last year that are just coming into bloom in the greenhouse. The cross I really want to do with 'Dr. F. L. Skinner' is with 'Hazeldean'. I'll do that in late spring outdoors.

Robert Rippetoe

Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 10995Post Robert Rippetoe
Fri Apr 13, 2007 1:00 am

I wonder if Brentwood Bay is offering the same thing that I am growing? Are the photos one HMF similar? What I have is a fairly deep yellow. Mine never goes to white.

I would certainly never expect black spot from spinosissima 'Altaica'?

I have not seen BS but Peter says he has in WV?

It would be great were this true.

HMF suggests origin Russia?


Rob Byrnes
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69468Post Rob Byrnes
Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:55 am

Do we have any new information on R. alabukensis since this last posting?
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Karl K
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69473Post Karl K
Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:05 pm

kim rupert wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:00 am
Alabukensis came from the Study Plot at The Huntington. Bill Grant sent me a packet of information some years ago, which I can't locate. From what I remember, it's been documented by Soviet botanists. Yes, it's fertile, setting hips all over. They began life here sort of cranberry red and turned black. Unfortunately, I no longer have it.
The formal description of 1979 states that the hips are orange-red when ripe.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.37335.1&tab=7

johannesp
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69484Post johannesp
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:19 pm

I have a copy of the Latin disruption (somewhere). It says yellow turning white. It’s a bit of a weed. I have never actually used in breeding.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69485Post Rob Byrnes
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:22 pm

Thank you both. Does anyone know the ploidy of this one?
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Karl K
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69486Post Karl K
Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:24 pm

johannesp wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:19 pm
I have a copy of the Latin disruption (somewhere). It says yellow turning white. It’s a bit of a weed. I have never actually used in breeding.
The Latin description I linked to says, "Flores 3.7-4.8 cm in diam. albi, apice ramulorum floriferorum in inflorescentiis corymbosis dispositi."

"Flowers 3.7-4.8 cm in diameter, white, corymbose inflorescences disposed in the apex of the flowering branches."

Rob Byrnes
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69496Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:35 am

... corymbose inflorescences disposed in the apex of the flowering branches."

Thank you Karl. What exactly does that mean though?
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

roseseek
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69498Post roseseek
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:17 pm

You know, Rob, the opposite of uncorymbose inflorescences which aren't disposed in the apex of the flowering branches.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Rob Byrnes
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69499Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:18 pm

LOL That make so much more sense Kim!
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

roseseek
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69501Post roseseek
Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:20 pm

Too funny!
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Karl K
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69504Post Karl K
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:07 pm

Rob Byrnes wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:35 am
... corymbose inflorescences disposed in the apex of the flowering branches."
Thank you Karl. What exactly does that mean though?
Rob,
Some folks do get wordy in their Latin. A simpler reading would be "Flowers in corymbs at the ends of the flowering branches.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69506Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:11 pm

Thank you Karl. The description sounds very attractive, unless there is something I'm missing. I have this rose and want to breed with it and that's why I have all the questions.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

johannesp
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Re: The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

Post: # 69526Post johannesp
Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:05 am

Karl I see my mistake, from my notes:
“Buds are yellow but turn a disappointing cream”
My copy proved to be a very expensive mistake. Johannes

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