Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

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rikuhelin1
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71812Post rikuhelin1
Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:01 pm

I have a rose "I" labelled as "Ruskela" ... it is not in my opinion ... not a vendor error as shovel, dirt and sliced labels flying around 3 years ago in remake and move.

Checked HMF and Finnish Rose Society photos against import list of contenders mainly using white bloom as primary criteria, and spino, or rugosa hybrid as secondary. Some have no photo with listing and skimpy info.

Any ideas if characteristics in photo meet one (or all :-)) of the contenders on my original delivered import list ... ?

So far in three years turning out to be a darn nice looking, clean rose with stylish buds. First 2 years it slept and crept and no blooms.

Lutikkaruusu
Porsliini Kaunota (Posliinikaunotar)
Lovisa
Sävel
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rikuhelin1
Posts: 218
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71816Post rikuhelin1
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:41 pm

Forgot critical photo of 1/4 bloom ... pale yellow hue likely to disappear.
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MidAtlas
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71836Post MidAtlas
Wed Jul 08, 2020 11:49 pm

That's some interesting-looking (and sounding) rose you have, but it doesn't seem to be much like any of the ones you've listed. Did you import them all from a single nursery, or have any other clues that might help? The closest ones I've found so far still don't seem all that close to what you have.

Stefan

rikuhelin1
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71837Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:50 am

From a single nursery, but not a Finnish one. l am going back to the original list and see if description l got from web searches was transferred incorrectly by me for one ... pretty sure back in 17 l used the FRS and HMF sites. Either way the leaf shape texture and color is not common in my garden, and the thorns/prickles do not look like my spinos to my eyes and not seen too many red ones on young rugosa hybrids (can’t think of one at the moment) ... may contact vendor. One of the roses on the contender list in HMF shows in some photos as a white semi double but this bloom is more order.

Lovisa is Icelandic and HMF has paucity of data other than spino and white. l have one with that label but has not bloomed. Skotta did end up being Wasagaming that l repatriated to Canada. And still waiting for Poppius to bloom ... still choked Ran got chewed but will get over it once the bobcats, coyotes, magpies, Alberta weasels and owls here finish their balancing act in our overrun neighbourhood.

Even if it remains a mystery rose, seems to a lucky fluke.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71838Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:12 am

Just remembered a red one, checked against leaves, cane, and thorn colour of my 5 yr old Bayse Purple - color and thorns similar but no cigar ... less and more thorn like (or prickle?) like on BYP and leaves similar, but broader at this age stage of comparison ... flower of course not even close.

Going with Rugosa (hybrid) for now.

rikuhelin1
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:56 pm

Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71839Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:19 am

Errata ... “Basye”

rikuhelin1
Posts: 218
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71840Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:57 am

Add possessive to name ... as it sinks in it becomes clear a lot of similarities so close in cane, cane color, thorn and leaf characteristics ... now to find a RH that has those, plus white semi - double, slightly/tinged yellow at bloom start ... and hardy, any source of more photos of Jellinek’s (sic) cross with Ole?

rikuhelin1
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71841Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:37 pm

Bloom #1 today ... real interesting potential showing for down the road if yellow hue stays as a “blush” and bloom stays full ... and not imaging disease free, and hardy after three winters in garden. Go Nordica go :-)
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hjortur
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71844Post hjortur
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:07 pm

At least it it not 'Lovísa'. 'Lovísa' is single and a hardy (and worthy of cultivation in Iceland) selection of R. pimpinellifolia.

For a long time 'Skotta' was cultivated as both 'George Will' and 'Wasagaming' in Iceland (and even for a short time as 'Betty Bland'). This is the first time I hear that it has been the other way around :)

Best wishes
Hjörtur Þorbjörnsson

rikuhelin1
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71846Post rikuhelin1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:19 pm

Hi Hjortur

Thanks for the info on Lovisa - guess l am tapped based on original import list - thought another contender might be Savel - but its definitely looks blush pink.

Skotta and George are close to each so l am going to compare once he blooms and again with my Canadian Wasagaming.

The mystery rose is getting “my” unofficial study name of “Nordica” until the rose or hybridizer is id. The meaning of the name seems appropriate (a she, from the North) and like the ring to it.

Btw went to get Finlandia once at a local shop here but “The Mountain” was in the shop doing a promo ... left with four of his Iceland brand autographed for friends and a to scale photo op in the price ... that lad is Very Big - good to see he is back as champ.

MidAtlas
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71857Post MidAtlas
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:34 pm

If R. rugosa is in its background, some of its usual morphological signatures certainly have been muted by the influence of some other species (which can certainly happen). It does look like R. spinosissima might be in the background, probably with some modern or Synstylae section rose(s) as well to give that particular leaf shape. Whatever is in it, it's a very lucky accident if it wasn't one that you ordered.

Hopefully its true name will be forthcoming. If you do need a study name while trying to sort out its true identity, how about something non-Latin in form, like "Nordic Blonde"? A name like "Nordica" would be inadmissible as a cultivar epithet, were it to somehow never achieve any other ID (fingers crossed, hoping that isn't the case)!

Stefan

rikuhelin1
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71858Post rikuhelin1
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:44 pm

The points you make on the rose habit and characters are excellent. But l am out of my depth in id’ing. I did peruse the young “Helenae” hybrids for a reference point as they are closer to a “lancet” form l see in the leaves - but quite dark green. Did have an anxiety attack it might be JP Connell but that quickly passed when l looked at one.

The canes are also showing signs of a weakening of the reddish brown that l see happen in new canes of the rugosa hybrid “Hunter”.

Some large bud “clusters” (not floret to me) also show mixed differences in origin on plant - photo. The good news is the yellow is only slowly being lost on bloom #1 - should mention it has a slight very light “green” tinge. They seem to be slow to open for an all day sunny spot - but large buds.

But one flower, in the leap year, a rose does not make, sticks in my mind hence a study name.

I agree. Hence forth, as l see on HMF for “naming” that a second noun should be used, it is by the blood the flows in me decreed the my new “unofficial” study name be “Nordica äiti“ - hope rose is Finnish as name could be awkward. Its going to busy if its not identified and lives up to early promise ... hardy and mildly blush.
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rikuhelin1
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71859Post rikuhelin1
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:23 am

Bloom #2

Blush absent. Believe bloom would make double designation.

Bloom, though close, is “more” double to my eyes than my Beauty of Leafland(s) - a Canadian Erskine white, very hardy spino hybrid. Leaflets at that this stage also do not appear close enough for a horseshoes ID win. But best contender so far that l can see.
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rikuhelin1
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Re: Scandinavian Import ID Challenge - Needle in Haystack Quest?

Post: # 71889Post rikuhelin1
Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:01 am

This unknown is putting out a consistent bloom form now that is getting right up to full double. Bloom 5 ... next to see if it shoots for quartered.

What a stunner white it is to my tastes ... never been a fan of white, but will make an exception ... must be modern hybrid ... no fragrance in late evening for todays bloom. 3 inches wide at sunset.

Bloom frail, not tolerating water spray without “bruising”.

Love to see it go 6-8 feet and smothered with spino like blooming characteristics when it matures. However early days suggest protracted bloom period.
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