Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

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mnemko
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Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

Post: # 71464Post mnemko
Sun May 17, 2020 3:01 pm

Some flowers on a given plant have more or fewer petals and different coloration. The cause doesn't seem to be cultural--that is, different amounts of sun on that flower, nor different amounts of water on the petal, nor insect damage. Is the genome of two flowers on the same plant identical or would it be wise for me to take pollen only from the best flowers on the plant?

Also, I have three plants of what were ordered as and labeled as Oso Easy Italian Ice. They're in nearly identical pots adjacent to each other. Yet they're each quite different. One has larger flowers with a few more petals and the plant is vigorous. One has smaller darker yellow flowers. One has too-light-colored small flowers.Culture is essentially identical. Yet it's hard to believe they're mislabeled. The leaves, plant habit, disease resistance, thorns and rachis are identical across the plants. I did, if I recall, order them separately. Is it possible that the mother plants are different cultivars?
Marty Nemko
mnemko@comcast.net
510-655-2777



mnemko
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Re: Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

Post: # 71468Post mnemko
Sun May 17, 2020 4:18 pm

All are own root. And as I said, sun, soil, fertilizer, pots, are essentially identical.
Marty Nemko
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510-655-2777

Don
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Re: Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

Post: # 71481Post Don
Tue May 19, 2020 10:03 pm

Looks like OE Italian Ice has mutable color -

https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=21.308284

>> Is the genome of two flowers on the same plant identical

Well, the correct answer in Bio 204 would be yes. You can get the occasional mutation on a bud, though.
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

mnemko
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Re: Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

Post: # 71487Post mnemko
Wed May 20, 2020 2:38 pm

I'm getting more variability. On one plant, the flower is bright yellow with red edges, on another, it's like the picture you send--various forms of pink and yellow blend. It is a wonderful rose in the garden--healthy, covered with well-formed 15-petal flowers of those beautiful colors you see in the picture, that rounded patio-size plant habit and glossy foliage in the picture, is reported to be hardy to zone 4a( min temp -25 to -30) plus produces good stuff as a female.
Marty Nemko
mnemko@comcast.net
510-655-2777

Karl K
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Re: Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

Post: # 71488Post Karl K
Thu May 21, 2020 10:56 am

mnemko wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 3:01 pm
Some flowers on a given plant have more or fewer petals and different coloration. The cause doesn't seem to be cultural--that is, different amounts of sun on that flower, nor different amounts of water on the petal, nor insect damage. Is the genome of two flowers on the same plant identical or would it be wise for me to take pollen only from the best flowers on the plant?
Marty,
Identical twins are often not exactly identical. In plants, cuttings (or buds) from a single specimen may produce plants that are not exactly identical. Some of the variations can be perpetuated, and even enhanced by repeated selection.

I have a number of examples if you want to learn more. These include roses, potatoes, various citrus fruits, currants, apples, etc.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/KKing/VegetativeSelection.html

The paper by Breese, et al. is of particular interest. They set out to learn whether perennial ryegrass could be improved (or harmed) by vegetative selection. Yes and no. Old strains that had been vegetatively propagated in the field for many years did not respond to selection. Seedlings, however, did respond somewhat. Second generation seedlings responded even more. The paper suggests that vegetative selection should be started early, before a seedling gets "set in its ways".

It is worth noting that some roses respond strongly, while others (e.g., Radiance) are stubbornly excellent. Despite mass propagation, Radiance refused to degenerate, and could not be improved beyond its natural state. This may be a result of line-breeding rather than continuous out-crossing.

mnemko
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Re: Is pollen's DNA the same on all flowers of a plant?

Post: # 71509Post mnemko
Tue May 26, 2020 4:34 pm

Very helpful. I will now, in taking pollen, take only from the best plant and, what the hell, the best individual flowers on the plant. Now seeing this year's seedlings bloom, I continue to be impressed with Oso Easy Italian Ice as a female. I'll be back-crossing onto it the pollen from the best seedings it has produced. I mix pollen to ensure an ample supply of fresh stuff and mainly to avoid the hassle of labeling and record keeping. My pollen mix now includes what's fresh from among my 2 best Oso Easy Italian Ice seedlings, Rainbow's End, Red Sunblaze, and an unnamed Por LaMar pot plant of 30+ velvety red petals of fine form--long lasting.
Marty Nemko
mnemko@comcast.net
510-655-2777

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