Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

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philip_la
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Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70581Post philip_la
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:35 am

The one plant I have had a bead on was at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. It appears it is now lost, I gather due to excessive pruning by a volunteer. (I have delayed acquiring the plant due to space concerns of my own.)

Does anybody know of any other source for this rose? I *think* Enrique Munoz Ramirez *might* have once had a cutting -- though he evidently lived close enough to the SJ garden he could have obtained pollen from there -- but I haven't seen him on this forum for the better part of a decade, and cannot find any contact information.

Dr. Byrne at TX A&M evidently never had it in *their* Basye's collection.

If anybody knows of a source, I'd be very appreciative. It would be a shame to lose this interesting plant.

Thanks.
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

david mears
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70588Post david mears
Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:35 pm

Philip, I maybe no help, but I would message Kim Rupert, Burling elong(I think spelling is wrong) or contacting Paul Barden if you can, just a thought.
[color=#FFFF00]david mears
in Mudgee,
in NSW,
in Australia.[/color]

roseseek
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70590Post roseseek
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:55 pm

Thanks David, but Burling never had it. I doubt Paul had it and I haven't had it in MANY years. I wish I had my repeat flowering self seedling of it, but like MANY others, it's long gone. Philip and I have been in contact about it.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

david mears
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70591Post david mears
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:06 pm

okay Kim, it was worth a shot
[color=#FFFF00]david mears
in Mudgee,
in NSW,
in Australia.[/color]

roseseek
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70592Post roseseek
Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:49 pm

Thank you. I'll take any possible shot. It's sad when such things disappear.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

philip_la
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70595Post philip_la
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:33 pm

Thanks to you both.
Yes, I have cried (virtually) on Kim's shoulder over the loss. Several years ago, I was not really in the position to handle it, despite the fact that I acquired a little more land then than I have now. (I was having a near zero percent take rate on cuttings after moving to TX. I hadn't appreciated the benefits of Louisiana humidity.)

I think Enrique is probably my only hope for this thing as he seemed to take an interest in the plant as well (perhaps as a consequence of my own unfiltered speculations on its merits). I have no idea if he ever obtained any interesting offspring. He used to be quite active here. Does anybody have any contact information for him?
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

Enrique Munoz
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70602Post Enrique Munoz
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:35 pm

I don’t have it :-/

Then it’s gone for good.

I do, however, have a third generation seedling which David Zlesak is propagating for me.

My family is destroying my plants since I left home a few years ago.

If people care, contact him for a plant. Assuming if they survive and you pay for postage.

Parentage is
Cologne X (Abraham Darby X Basye’s Amphidiploid)

philip_la
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70613Post philip_la
Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:39 am

Enrique, long time no see! Have you just been lurking for the past half-dozen years or so? ;-)

I'm sorry to hear of your plants are being lost. It seems inevitable for most of us, at some point after many years in the hobby.

I am *very* sorry to learn of the rose being extinct. I was complacently assuming the plant was safe in the hands of "the Sangerhausen of CA." I just haven't been prepared to take on the beast even though It's a rose I have aspired to acquire for almost a decade. It always struck me as having great potential, being analogous to Kordesii, but perhaps even more suited to my climate. (It's parent, the abyssinian rose just looks like an incredible survivor in the mountains of Somalia, and I can't help but think it would be very strong here in TX as well.)

Thanks for your response. I'd love to learn more about your seedling.
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

Karl K
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70618Post Karl K
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:14 pm

On the more hopeful side, another such amphidiploid (probable or genuine) could be produced by anyone who had the right "parts".

While checking on possible progeny of Basye's plant, I saw what appears to be something even more interesting: Kim Rupert's self-seedling from Basye's. White (mostly) and perpetual. That should give more immediate results ... assuming it is still around.

And that reminded me of another Rugosa oddity mentioned by Graham Thomas (1994).
At some time before 1905, R. roxburghii was crossed with R. rugosa Thunb., ever a fertile parent, and the result partakes equally of both, being a good dense bush of some 2 m, well clad in its crisp foliage, amongst which the wide pale flowers tend to hide themselves. The stems are prickly like those of R. rugosa and the bark does not peel. It is interesting that the rounded, large heps are bristly and have some orange colouring. It was named R. x micrugosa Henkel.

During his experimental work with the parentage of roses at Cambridge in the second quarter of this century, Dr C.C. Hurst raised seedlings of this cross, one of which was named R. x micrugosa 'Alba'. Apart from being of rather more upright habit, it is in other respects a replica of the original but of important garden value because the white flowers are produced not only at midsummer, but onwards throughout the growing season. They are, moreover, very fragrant. This might prove to to be a fertile parent and thus bring both species into today's hybrids. They would be very hardy.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... i1994.html
Then there is yet another, raised by Gustafsson (1944).
R. canina II x rugosa: 1934-4 — This series consists of two individuals. One is a monosomic plant showing almost no trace of the father but also being very unlike the mother. It is smaller and less vigorous than its sister-plant, having few and rather weak prickles, small purely white petals, a light-green colour on stem and leaves, and lacks anthocyanin. It is less winter-hardy than its sister-plant; during the cold winters 1941 and 1942 the superterrestrial parts were entirely killed. It cannot be a monosomic of the mother-plant since the meiotic behaviour is that typical of canina-rugosa hybrids. Therefore in this case the loss of one chromosome obliterates the characters brought in by the rugosa genome.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/monosom.htm

'White Surprise' [R. bracteata x R. rugosa rubra] is at least a little surprising.

'Nyveldt's White' may be another instance, having been raised from three pinks. [R. rugosa rubra x Rosa cinnamomea] x Rosa nitida.

roseseek
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70619Post roseseek
Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:20 pm

Karl, unfortunately, unless someone like Joan Monteith still has it, that seedling is LONG gone. It was gone from that garden long before it was dismantled in 2007.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence


AquaEyes
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Re: Basye's "Probable Amphidiploid" now extinct?

Post: # 70644Post AquaEyes
Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:26 pm

'Micrugosa' is at my job -- Colonial Park's Rudolf van der Goot Rose Garden, in Somerset, NJ. I didn't dead-head it at all, and it's covered with hips.

:-)

~Christopher

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