Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

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mntlover
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Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

Post: # 70467Post mntlover
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:10 pm

I was wondering about remontanccy and juvenile bloom, what you have found with these (Above and Beyond and Rambling Red)? And is there a connection between the two. I know there isn't necessarily in Rugosa. And what about some of the Canadian Roses. Many have said they may get a small percentage of repeat bloomers, does this show up as a juvenile, or require waiting like Rugosas.

As a side note I left behind my Therese Bugnet seedling that had juvenile repeat bloom because the bud never opened ( three bud cycles this growing season). I swung by there to get some hips that had ripened and guess what I find? Of course, a more double version of Therese Bugnet staring at me. I may need to make another visit.

jbergeson
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Re: Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

Post: # 70472Post jbergeson
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:13 pm

David Zlesak, the breeder of A&B, once told me that in theory it should produce 1 in 6 repeaters when crossed with a repeater, but actually produces a smaller percentage. I have had a number of seedlings of moderns x A&B that show juvenile and repeat bloom, but I don't know how many seedlings it took to get them. It does not, as far as I know, have any rugosa blood or pass on the annoying characteristic of delayed remontancy.

Above & Beyond can set fat hips but is a quite reluctant seed parent. Most attempts at controlled crosses will fail. I've been able to get hip set on potted specimens in the greenhouse. It seemed to help to re-pollinate the blossoms later in the afternoon after pollinating them initially in the morning. And don't be stingy with the pollen. Last year I got hips from Hazeldean pollen (cool cross, I think), but this year I used pollen from some remontant roses so hopefully I'll get a chance to estimate what percentage of repeaters A&B can produce.

I gave up on Rambling Red years ago, right or wrong. It easily sets fat hips. I was under the impression that it was a repeater and would therefore give repeating seedlings. Can't remember any results to contradict that, but it was very early in my hybridizing 'career'. I think I probably didn't get enough health and/or hardiness in the seedlings to make me want to continue using it, but I can't remember for sure and you shouldn't let me discourage you from trying it.

Congrats on your juvi bloom TB seedling! I hope you can dig it out. I'm wondering what chance Metis has, with TB as one parent, of producing reblooming seedlings. I have a number of seeds this year from Metis x Catherine Guelda. Metis is TB crossed with the non-remontant R. nitida, while Catherine Guelda is TB crossed with a remontant polyantha and is herself remontant. I'd be so delighted to see juvi bloom from this cross.

Joe

mntlover
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Re: Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

Post: # 70473Post mntlover
Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:27 pm

Interesting to see if you get repeat from Metis seedlings, certainly seems possible. I have seeds from Above and Beyond from modern pollen, and I reversed the cross, so I have other seeds also, if they germinate better. I'm not sure if it would make a difference which direction the cross was made.
Thanks!
Duane

Rob Byrnes
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Re: Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

Post: # 70475Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:42 am

Ramblin Red produced a good percentage of repeat/juvenile bloomers for me. Most of the crosses with RR were using Never Alone. Disease resistance in F1 has been very good. There were a few F1 that didn't bloom the first season so I tossed those. One cross using RR and MMILC3, (Morning Magic x ILC1-72-1), produced a micro mini that hasn't bloomed yet. It is disease free. Based on my results using RR, I'll continue using it going forward.

Your TB seedlings sounds great. Hopefully you can post a picture here.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Rob Byrnes
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Re: Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

Post: # 70476Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:52 am

jbergeson wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:13 pm
Congrats on your juvi bloom TB seedling! I hope you can dig it out. I'm wondering what chance Metis has, with TB as one parent, of producing reblooming seedlings. I have a number of seeds this year from Metis x Catherine Guelda. Metis is TB crossed with the non-remontant R. nitida, while Catherine Guelda is TB crossed with a remontant polyantha and is herself remontant. I'd be so delighted to see juvi bloom from this cross.

Joe
I like the sound of your Metis x Catherine Guelda cross. I hope you get some juvenile/repeat bloomers from that Joe. I have a few Metis x Ruglauca seedlings that are new this season. Ruglauca is (Rugosa #3 × R. glauca) x OP. It repeats in flushes throughout the season and had juvenile bloom as a small seedling. I'm hoping the reason I didn't have juvenile bloom this first season was because of rugosa influence and that I'll have repeat bloom showing up in the second season. The combination of Metis and Ruglauca produced nice leaves that are disease resistant.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

mntlover
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Re: Question about experience with Above and Beyond and Rambling Red

Post: # 70478Post mntlover
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:53 pm

Rambling Red didn't set seed with any of the crosses I made (it may need to get established better). Fortunately I reversed the crosses, so we'll see if anything results from those.
Your Metis crosses sound great!
Thanks for the input;
Duane

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