Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

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philip_la
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Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69013Post philip_la
Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:14 am

So... bagged bare roots are out at all the big box stores, and I concede that I was rather impressed with the selection at my local WalMart --large good-looking bagged plants from Certified on sale for under $7. They had over 40 varieties of the old standards, as well as a couple newer ones (e.g. Lavender Crush).

I am too often tempted to succumb, and this year is no exception...

I was wondering if any of the older HT's of the 50's through the 80's still have much merit by today's standards (if crossed with species or newer cultivars) in the opinions of others on this forum, or if one would do better to walk away, and look at the *newer* cultivars out there... (I note that e.g. Kordes has occasionally gone back to older cultivars for some of their award-winnning new plants, and I do not feel compelled to paint all of them with too broad a brush based on generalizations about roses of a certain time period...)

I'm in the process of looking up member reviews on HMF of over 20 that I recall as being very respected in their time. Problem is that folks had no qualms about relying on the chemical industry at that time, and I have no patience for disease-prone plants in my no-spray garden. I assume that those who grow old exhibition-type HT's and grandifloras judge disease-resistance with a lower bar, and I should take "excellent" or "excellent-" with a grain of salt?

Anybody think any of them are worth giving over the realty? (Okay, I did succumb to a Rio Samba...)
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

Larry Davis
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Re: Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69019Post Larry Davis
Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:52 pm

I still have Crimson Glory, Iceberg, Mr. Lincoln, Carrousel, Impatient, Frau Karl Druschki hanging on with no spray last couple years, minimal prior couple years. They've been here 40 yr or so and I'm not feeling like digging them out. But they're not worth collecting pollen, IMO. I've used them one way and another but nothing good ever happened. Queen O the Lakes a a superior Red, but a drought got it last winter. No disease.

Partial to bicolors I've tried Coronado and Golden Slippers, where I actually cheated by giving them and Austrian Copper a spray once each year when the BS got rather bad. Only GSl yielded anything worthwhile. It has a yellow Eye surrounded by a golden topside. That's how I got Ruby Slippers with Rainbow KO. No disease. So once in a while you can get something worthwhile if you can blend in a really tough partner. CArefree BEauty x Joseph's Coat is a nice big shrub/upright climber only moderately disease-prone. But it hasn't given me further advance with a lot o different pollens.

Overall I've lost well over 200 roses, most of which I have used as parents one way or the other. I've tried probably 50 yellow roses, from microminis to big HTs, Eclipse to Julia Child with Souv de Claude Pernet added in. Disease and winter hardiness are the two challenges. Not that we have actually cold winter, scarcely ever much below 0 F. My germination records, and hence pollination records, are posted up through 2014 on the RHA site.

The older mainline roses can bring in interesting flower traits like petal shape, color shading, petal number, overall form. But at a cost of low winterhardiness and disease susceptilibity. Last couple years I've had good luck with Soeur Therese pollen on one of my complicatesd hybrids to get a better yellow than Carefree Sunshine or Sunny KO. So far it has excellent disease resistance and was fully hardy last winter. It has siblings. So there are possibilities even with some Pernetiana blood mixed in. Whether this one holds up I can't say for a couple years yet. Like S.T. it needs lots of warmth and sun to flower well. Just an example.

Karl K
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Re: Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69020Post Karl K
Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:05 am

Ralph Moore did some useful work bringing old roses into his breeding lines. Thanks to Moore, that old 'Ferdinand Pichard' donated its stripes to modern roses. His Moss roses are interesting, and do bring in some older "blood". Less well known is his 'Sequoia Jewel' [Sheri Anne x Paul Neyron]. I grew it for a while, long ago, but did not appreciate its possibilities.

'Schoener's Nutkana' is another child of 'Paul Neyron' that had its day in the sun, but apparently most folks didn't want really gigantic roses (seven inches or more across).

Leonard Barron. [Souv. de Mme. Boullet (HT.) X Schoener's Nutkana].
Polar Bear. [Schoener's Nutkana X New Century (HRug.)].
Shenandoah. [Etoile de Hollande (HT). X Schoener's Nutkana]. Climbing.
Mrs. Francis King. [Lady Lilford (HT.) X Leonard Barron (HN.)].

Also, Schoener's lovely 'Arrillaga' is an awkward plant (as I've seen it grown) but does contribute some Centifolia influence.

Plazbo
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Re: Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69041Post Plazbo
Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:34 pm

I'm getting Margaret McGreedy this year, it carries bicolour, fragrance and has demonstrated fertility, i like bicolours but the available options either lack fragrance or fertility in most cases...that probably doesn't add anything to the discussion.

roseseek
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Re: Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69063Post roseseek
Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:26 pm

Dang! I wish Margaret McGredy was available in the US.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

MidAtlas
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Re: Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69065Post MidAtlas
Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:40 am

I wonder if you might be able to find some of the qualities of 'Margaret McGredy' in its Brownell descendant 'Shades of Autumn' (which might be a healthier choice across a wider range of climates).

There must be some gems among the older hybrid teas, even for breeders in areas where they were mostly marginal without heroic horticultural interventions. Trying to parse the comments and ratings for useful variety recommendations takes some doing, but I've found both HMF and GardenWeb (now Houzz) helpful. I might be (probably am) deluding myself, but at least there's the thrill of the hunt, and it's all good for the rose nurseries.

Stefan

mnemko
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Re: Anybody using any of the old HT fav's of the 20th c.?

Post: # 69170Post mnemko
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:51 pm

Sheer Elegance, for my money, the most beautiful hybrid-tea flower ever, also has good hipset and germination. I haven't used it before. I'm looking forward to evaluating the seedlings. In the San Francisco Bay Area, it's been rather healthy for me: no mildew, maybe a bit of blackspot, but rust at the end of the season.
Marty Nemko
mnemko@comcast.net
510-655-2777

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