Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

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Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68696Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:11 pm

Please accept my apologies if this question has been answered many times in the past....the search function wouldn't work for me.

I'm wondering if there is a exhaustive source of data regarding which cultivars produce hips, and how prolifically they do so, and which do not.

Thanks!

Tony

Larry Davis
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Re: Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68698Post Larry Davis
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:41 pm

I think not. Asaystematic review of germination studies (which I did and posted on the RHA site) identifies lots of plants that produce enough hips to get scored by someone somewhere. AT Help-Me-Find roses search you can look up the purported progeny of any rose listed there. That of course only indicates progeny good enough to be registered at some point and to hang around long enough to be noticed, so mainly commercially introduced, except from a limited number of recent breeding programs. Otherwise it is all just lore. And it is location and climate dependent.

For instance Frau Karl Druschki is listed as parent of a fair number of CV, but for 35 years I never got a hip to form on it. Then a few years ago, presumably because of climate change there was a season, following a mild winter, when hips did form when pollinated by several sources. No useful progeny though. I expect that each breeder has a list, maybe long, of plants that failed to make hips, or make viable seeds, or make decent offspring. Many such lists may contain many unique CV that are on no other list. Generally the professional commercial breeders will not tell you. For sure not if it is a desirable breeder anticipated to yield more, better progeny, either directly or through future generations..

henry kuska
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Re: Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68699Post henry kuska
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:45 am

Listed parents are not always correct. For example if a variety is hot, there may be a lot of follow up introductions claiming that variety as one of the parents.

I was seated at an ARS banquet at a table with a famous hybridizer who had had too much to drink. He admitted that. I was suspicious before that; as he was claiming success with varieties that I (and others) could not hybridize with. I think that a similar statement was made in one of the British Rose Society Annuals.

Other times the parents were unknown, but if the rose looked like another rose, that rose was listed as a parent.

An example that I used to link to is the parents of Toro and Uncle Joe. That link has diappeared. Here is what Help=Me-Find gives:

Toro

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.6368.1

See also the comment at:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.6368.1&tab=32

--------------------------------------------------------

Uncle Joe

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.6368.2

See also the comment at:
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.p ... 8.2&tab=32

Rosarian_Du_Nord
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Re: Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68701Post Rosarian_Du_Nord
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:38 am

Thanks Larry and Henry!

It seems that the curious nature of the rose is only eclipsed by the human nature of the breeders who attempt to harness it.

Tony

Don
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Re: Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68702Post Don
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:59 pm

Is your question directed at improving your yield of seeds for breeding purposes or some other reason like, say, aesthetics or vitamin c production or jam making?

If it is to improve your yield of seeds then I would suggest that it doesn't matter much. If you can't get seeds from a plant as a mother you can probably use it as a pollen parent anyway. If you can't get progeny either way after trying as many possible combinations as you can then maybe move on but at least give them a try.

I have found that a few cultivars are useless both ways but I'd be reluctant to say which because the results might be different for you in your situation and I'd hate to be the one who stopped progress because I offered a stwrong opinion.

That goes for Sericea which I dissed pretty hard recently. If anything I would encourage people to work with it.

If it's easy to do then people have likely done it already.
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

tsilvers
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Re: Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68715Post tsilvers
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:57 am

Amen, Don!!!

I've personally found 'Fragrant Cloud' to be very difficult to get seed from, BUT... my current most promising lines are descended from a one time successful hip that set on 'Fragrant Cloud' from pollen of Rosa carolina.
I've tried really hard not to discourage other people from trying things just because I haven't had success with them, but the flip side of that thinking is that there are certain hard-headed people who will be all the more encouraged to try something if you tell them it won't work. ;)

[Tipping my hand that I just might be one of those hard heads] I actually bought 'Angel Face' last season and used it for some crosses. Time will tell, if I'm a complete fool for doing so. LOL
And testing Kim Rupert's suggestions not to use 'Commander Gillette' (Basye's Legacy) as a seed parent, I've tried it now for several years that way. In general, Kim was right. Most of the seedlings are pretty weak, but I have one growing under lights in my basement that is a wonderful exception to Kim's rule.

So, I'll emphatically echo Don in his statement to "at least give them a try" :)

Jwindha
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Re: Source of data on hip production by cultivar.

Post: # 68721Post Jwindha
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:54 am

Tony,

This thread may interest you. "Project for large rose hip X R. Pimpinellifolia. Questions": http://rosebreeders.org/forum/viewtopic ... ion#p66312

-Jonathan

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