R. gallica versus R. rubiginosa

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dgermeys
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R. gallica versus R. rubiginosa

Post: # 67894Post dgermeys
Thu May 24, 2018 3:19 pm

Hi,

Today I collected some pollen in the wild from rosa rubiginosa and afterwards I saw a picture of rosa gallica complicata... Which made me wonder...

Are rosa gallica and rosa rubiginosa related species? They both have glands on there sepals and the sepals show a particular pattern.

What do you guys think?
Dane from Belgium

david zlesak
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Re: R. gallica versus R. rubiginosa

Post: # 67895Post david zlesak
Thu May 24, 2018 11:00 pm

That's a great question. Supposedly R. rubiginosa is a very complex polyploid with multiple progenitor species and maybe R. gallica is one of them.

Karl K
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Re: R. gallica versus R. rubiginosa

Post: # 67951Post Karl K
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:52 pm

Rosa rubiginosa, according to Hurst’s analysis, is ABBCD. Each letter corresponds to a set of fifty traits that Hurst found to be associated in species growing around the world.

A, for example, includes all the Systylae and Indicae species. These species vary greatly, but agree in a large set of characters. B covers the diploid Pimpinellifoliae, while C is limited to rugosa, nitida and a few lesser known forms. D is represented by RR. cinnamomea, blanda, foliolosa, palustris and others. Finally, E is RR. macrophylla, corymbulosa, elegantula, elegantula, persetosa.

Considering the great differences among the species of some of these groups, polyploid species built up from them will also differ greatly, while also expressing the salient traits shared among the diploid species of each type.

In other words, a hybrid of Blanda and Multiflora will be very different from one raised by crossing Foliolosa and Moschata. Nevertheless, both hybrids will combine the traits of D and A.

An approximation of Rubiginosa might be had by crossing Gallica (AACC) and the alpine Pimpinellifolia (BBDD). This would not be a perfect match, it would need an extra dose of B (maybe from Willmottiae), and certainly would not duplicate the peculiar Caninae meiosis.

It is not at all certain that the polyploid species are derived from diploid species that currently exist. The ancestors might be quite different, though still sharing the large sets of characters. I would not care to guess whether Nitida or Rugosa is closer to the ancestral C type.

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