Spring Observations

A meeting place for rose breeders.
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Spring Observations

Post: # 67856Post jbergeson
Wed May 16, 2018 11:02 pm

Just blabbing some observations from this spring:

I was surprised to see today that my old patch of R. woodsii seems quite dead. A stem or two surviving to 6 feet, the rest appear dead to the bottom. Nearby (apparent diploid) R. acicularis are alive to the tips. Both came from Lawyer years ago. I have four two year woodsii seedlings originating from this patch that are about 4 feet tall and alive to the tips.

Ross Rambler #4 is leafing out to the tips about 10 feet in the air. I've never seen a taller rose in this climate. It also isn't suckering much at all so I wonder if I could somehow use it to work towards hardy climbers. It gets some leaf issues later in the season which might be problematic in hybridizing but I might try it in some crosses this year.

Last year I lined out large numbers of crosses using (First Impression x R. virginiana)#3 as the pollen parent. One of my thoughts was that having these large numbers with different seed parents would give some insight into the relative health and hardiness imparted by the seed parent. The three parents from which I had the most seedlings were Miracle on the Hudson, White Out, and my seedling #1048. My seedling imparted the most hardiness, White Out second, and the Miracle on the Hudson seedlings seemed to be the least hardy.

I had a few Icecap x FIVI3 seedlings that leafed out well but when I checked later the leaves had dried up on many of them. We had had a frost, so maybe Icecap imparts frost sensitivity. Few or no seedlings from the three aforementioned seed parents showed such sensitivity, and they were all in the same row. However, there are other variables such as close cultivation so no definitive conclusion can yet be drawn.

Here are some hardiness measurements on roses that were newly planted last year. It's somewhat unfair to judge because some may have had a slow start no fault to the cultivar. "No life" doesn't mean they're dead for sure, just that there is no life visible.

Yellow Brick Road - no life
White Out - 6”
Winnipeg Parks - crown green
Royal Edward - crown
Red Dawn - 7”
Rainbow KO - 6”
Prairie Joy - 5”
Pinktopia - crown
Miracle on the Hudson - 4”
Petit Pink - crown
Peppermint Pop - 4”
Never Alone - no life
Music Box - crown
Mother of Pearl - no life
Morning Magic - 7”
Morden Sunrise - crown, 3” ( two plants)
Morden Centennial - 8”
Morden Blush - 5”
Little Mischief - no life
Kiss Me - no life
Kashmir - no life
John Davis - 24”
Innocencia Vigorosa - 4”
Hope for Humanity - 7”
High Voltage - crown
Gaye Hammond - crown
Fruity Petals - crown
Fire Meideland - crown
Felix LeClerc - crown or more (poorly established plant)
Emily Carr - 8”
Dakota’s Song - 6” - this rose has impressed me more than once with the amount of live wood for such a large-blossomed cultivar.
Coco - crown
Chuckles - crown
Oso Easy Cherry Pie - crown
Cuthbert Grant - 7”
Cherry Lady - no life
Campfire - 5”
Canadian Shield - 8”
Bubble Double - crown
Bill Reid - 2”
Above & Beyond - 6”
Cherry Frost - 5”
Thornless Wich x Pink Drift - 3”

Larry Davis
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:37 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67882Post Larry Davis
Sun May 20, 2018 10:08 pm

Can you give us an estimate of how cold it got last winter, and the depth of snow (if any) during that cold spell. This is very useful relative information.

If you would like some R woodsii from Lander WY I can send you some vigorously growing seedlings to see how they do up there in bitter winter MN.

Also I can send 13-2 (AKA Ruby Slippers) which was hardy to its tips here where it briefly hit -10 F a couple nights. enough to kill back several bushes such as First Impression. It is about as hardy as Arctic Sunrise which you had some years back and preferred to Carefree Beauty.

Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67885Post jbergeson
Mon May 21, 2018 10:14 am

Hi Larry,

I'm not good with keeping track of minimum temps, but maybe -29 F last winter, just guessing. Fairly good snowcover of about a foot in that area. I must reiterate that these were newly planted roses so it's not totally fair to judge them on these results.

I'll pass on the woodsii as I have some of my own selections and I'm not super interested in hybridizing with it. 13-2 sounds interesting but send at your own risk as I'm overwhelmed with roses and other responsibilities and something or another will fall by the wayside.


Posts: 1275
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:54 pm

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67933Post jbergeson
Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:36 am


My dead R. woodsii, it is now apparent, were killed by glyphosate (Roundup).

Likewise, the Icecap seedlings that I thought were frost-damaged were actually touched by Roundup that drifted a good thirty-five feet away from the thistles being sprayed.

In separate news, don't ever, ever, use a broadleaf herbicide called Milestone. My guy talked me into letting him use it last summer because we are trying to control a new weed from the Netherlands called keik that has spread into our lawn. We don't want to be the epicenter of a new weed outbreak, and as a nursery we're automatically a potential distribution center. Anyways, it's spread all over in the lawn and we've been using glyphosate which kills everything so we get big brown spots in the lawn and my guy thought it would be a good idea to try a broadleaf and I let him try Milestone and now this spring we started getting distorted, curling leaves on random plants in the greenhouse and we have no clue how it got in there whether through our soil mix or somehow it got in the water lines but apparently even 1 part per billion can cause symptoms and why the hell would people ever use this stuff it can go through a cow and get composted with the manure and still mess up your garden. End rant.

doug wild
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:43 pm
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta Canada US Zone 2

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67934Post doug wild
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:35 am

Hi Joe,

Your observations of rose hardiness confirm generally what happens here...another far north hybridizer in Alberta, Canada. After a typical winter, it takes so many of the crown hardy cultivars all summer to recover vigor/plant mass to support bloom. Conversely it is such a pleasure to see tip hardy stock that are instead loaded with buds. In my yard, you can't beat the spinosissimas this time of year...some you can look up at and some you can even walk underneath. The rugosa hybrid Wasagaming also is no slouch and a favorite. It actually is blooming now and Prairie Peace is still in the bud stage.
PrP bud June 3.jpg
Prairie Peace

doug wild
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:43 pm
Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta Canada US Zone 2

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67935Post doug wild
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:38 am

Wasagaming photo
Wasagaming June3.jpg

Margit Schowalter
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Location: Alberta, Canada

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67936Post Margit Schowalter
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:46 am

Sorry to hear of your bad luck with the spray. Maybe the folks at the local golf course can recommend something. Twenty years ago, I could spray Roundup at the base of my shrubs around the time the grass was 3 inches high and before the leaves emerged. It worked well by killing the grass without harming the shrub. Now the formula has changed and the new Roundup is called "Transorb". It is designed to travel through the soil and moves from root to nearby root. Very effective and kills everything. Needless to say, I don't use it anywhere near the garden.
The broadleaf weed herbicide was a good idea. I buy something called "Par three" which is used on golf courses. It has no residual effect and it needs to be repeated when the second crop of weeds emerge.
A very powerful broadleaf herbicide available to farmers is one called "Grazon". It has a three year residual effect and is considered non-toxic to livestock. It is very useful when spot applied to tough weeds like pasture sage.

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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67937Post philip_la
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:39 pm

Joe, the pedigree of Dakota's Song sounds intriguing (I am wanting more Buck in my own stock!) and it looks rather attractive. (But where in the Dickens did its grandparent Golden Unicorn get the yellow tones from?) Have you worked with D.S.? Is anyone growing it in warmer climates?
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

Larry Davis
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:37 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67940Post Larry Davis
Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:19 pm

I think that Dow mis-spelled the name on aminopyralid. It is millstone, not milestone, at least for the unaware recipients of composts from yards treated with it by commercial applicators, or cattle forage processed through cows and then composted. Several years ago our community gardens had rather a disaster with tomatoes when the university feedlot was using treated hay for their cattle and we got the compost. I think that actually that was a slightly different formulation designed for pastures more generally. Milestone seems to be strongly promoted for roadside verges, warning to not make hay from the right of way grass. It is non-volatile so getting into your GH must have been drift, or treated soil or compost. But the spectrum of plants injured is basically all broadleaf plants, with some more susceptible than others. Evidently there is a market for pure grass verges in the southeast U.S. Presumably no prairie restoration attempts using black-eyed susan or coneflower, milkweed etc.

david zlesak
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:27 pm

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 67942Post david zlesak
Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:13 pm

'Datota's Song' was bred by my colleague's father, Robert Smith. Robert had a greenhouse/garden center and sold produce and really loved breeding roses. He was in Mitchell, South Dakota. His son, Brian, was inspired to breed plants. Brian was my college advisor 25+ years ago and is now my colleague where we both teach. Brian breeds strawberries, stone fruits, and grapes. I should get one for my garden. Sam Kedem in Hastings, MN propagates and sells it. He used to do mail order, but has gotten out of mail order a number of years ago.

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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 11:33 pm
Location: NW Chicagoland

Re: Spring Observations

Post: # 68439Post Dingo2001
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:26 pm

Just a note - Sam Kedem is doing mail order again if you are looking.
Zone 5

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