Not scientific, but interesting

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roseseek
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Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67075Post roseseek
Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:09 pm

Per this thread on Garden Web, Fire Opal is Kordes' most disease resistant rose.https://www.houzz.com/discussions/51308 ... istant#n=6
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

philip_la
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67076Post philip_la
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:58 pm

It bothers me that they threw out the BS vs Mildew distinction. Mildew isn't a problem here. But Fire Opal/Roseromantic is one of the few roses on Kordes' own site that gets not only a 4-star for BS, but also a 4-star for mildew. It's not a new rating system. Just a lamer one.

Kordes is very self-critical in their evaluations. Roses that get a "very good" or rather 3 star rating from Kordes usually get an "excellent" evaluation for disease-resistance by the voting public on HMF. I'm a fan of Kordes roses, and disappointed that Newflora is no more. I felt that Chris from Newflora was very fair in her own posts on Houzz, and very helpful, as well as genuinely interested in what gardeners had to say about the stock they offered.

It's interesting to note that European gardeners were pretty underwhelmed by e.g. Knock Out, and it could be because the Kordes roses were well ahead of the curve relative to what was going on on this side of the pond. Folks here were still fussing over chemical-dependent exhibition roses when Kordes was well underway with their no-spray program. But Germans are much more conscious about chemicals and health concerns than we are. As recently as last year, my toothpaste -- as in, it goes in my mouth -- for instance, as well as deodorant, had chemicals in it that had been entirely banned over there for health concerns for many years. (I believe the FDA recently changed the regulations, and has asked companies to alter their formulas to eliminate triclosan.)
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

philip_la
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67077Post philip_la
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:44 am

BTW, Dolomiti should have similar "Exceptional" rating on US system, were it available stateside, and assuming the "exceptional" isn't a typo from a copy writer who meant to say "excellent". I don't know that Star will focus that much attention on expanding the Kordes representation though.
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

Don
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67080Post Don
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:53 am

Thanks for this alert, Kim.

>> It's interesting to note that European gardeners were pretty underwhelmed by e.g. Knock Out,

Aesthetics. KO is a raggedy hedge albeit a monchromatically colorful one.

Just ordered Fire Opal from Chamblee. They have an assortment of Kordes newish introductions listed as non available but luckily this was not one of them. I picked up Winter Sun just because, well, yellow...Kordes...

I'm with you on Dolomiti, Philip.
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

philip_la
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67084Post philip_la
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:01 pm

Thanks, Don. I actually need to walk back some of my assertions. Apparently, Kordes didn't start the no-spray regimen until the 90's. I had thought it was earlier. Radler bred K.O. in 1988, so he was way ahead of the curve, and deserves the credit. Kordes roses had a reputation for good health before then, but the no-spray regimen was a real eye-opener for the firm. Roses introduced by Kordes after 2000 generally are the ones most likely to fair okay in no-spray settings, from what I read of one rosarian's opinion.
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

Karl K
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67110Post Karl K
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:37 am

philip_la wrote:Thanks, Don. I actually need to walk back some of my assertions. Apparently, Kordes didn't start the no-spray regimen until the 90's. I had thought it was earlier. Radler bred K.O. in 1988, so he was way ahead of the curve, and deserves the credit. Kordes roses had a reputation for good health before then, but the no-spray regimen was a real eye-opener for the firm. Roses introduced by Kordes after 2000 generally are the ones most likely to fair okay in no-spray settings, from what I read of one rosarian's opinion.
German breeders have long been concerned with producing healthy roses.
The Rose Annual, pp. 135-136 (1972)
The Men behind the New Roses
Nigel Raban
[Tantau] From the very beginning the firm's energies were concentrated upon the production of polyantha roses and this policy has continued to the present day, coinciding as it does with the commercial demands of the German market, which is for massed display rather than for individual blooms. As a result the breeding programme had a threefold objective: freedom of flowering, resistance to disease and an ability to withstand the winter rigours of the north German climate. The chosen parents to produce this strain included R. microphylla (R. roxburghii), R. multibracteata, both giving strong growth and hardiness to their progeny and 'Baby Chateau', the early floribunda raised by Wilhelm Kordes, which contributed to the freedom of flowering. The most successful of this group of seedlings were 'Kathe Duvigneau', which received a Trial Ground Certificate in 1952, 'Tantau's Triumph' (1948) and 'Tantau's Surprise' (1951). These varieties are still to be seen as park bedding roses on the continent though they have been largely superseded in this country.

And Wilhelm Kordes (1955) wrote about breeding for disease resistance.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... s1955.html

philip_la
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67113Post philip_la
Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:11 am

Thank you, Karl!
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

dgermeys
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Re: Not scientific, but interesting

Post: # 67124Post dgermeys
Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:40 am

Karl K wrote: German breeders have long been concerned with producing healthy roses.
And there is also Noack in Germany
and Louis Lens in Belgium, who brought us some very exceptional and healthy roses.
Dane from Belgium

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