Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

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Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby philip_la » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:53 am

Assuming the purported parentage is correct (R. setigera x Génie de Châteaubriand) I would assume that EaB should exhibit the dioecious qualities of it's mother species -- if it is even fertile...

Has anyone every successfully hybridized with this rose? And if so, is it male or female? or is it in fact monoecious?

I note that a number of setigera hybrids are very double, and I wonder about the fertility of these hybrids. I understand that doubleness often comes of sex organs converting to extra petals, and that such sometimes correlates to decreased fertility. I can find no documented descendants of EaB.

Anybody have any insights?
Philip F.
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby AquaEyes » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:38 am

On HelpMeFind, all the descendants listed for the rose have it as the seed-parent, so it's at least fertile that way. There is a listing for OP seedlings, which MAY be self-set.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n ... lstTyp=256

:-)

~Christopher
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby philip_la » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:03 pm

Okay. I feel dumb. I wonder if I did a typo in my search? I got no results when I first looked...

Anybody own, or ever use EaB? Might it offer any merit, used with modern mauves? I wonder, for instance, if crossed with Kordes' "Dark Desire" EaB could yield a nostalgic type of improved purple? Is EaB really heat tolerant, as review claims?
Philip F.
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby semiplenus » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:57 am

I've had EaB one season and it is still pretty small - about 3-4 feet against a partly shaded wall, about 4 pencil-width or smaller whip-like, finely prickled canes, matte foliage (my preference). Hoping for blooms this year.

I'm in 10a, southern California - so far, pretty good growth. A tiny bit of mildew when the plant was stressed in the darkest corner of the wall, but otherwise, no disease.

I'm interested in working with setigera hybrids and R. setigera serena, if I can find it...

I have an extra EaB (two were in the band I received) if you're interested. I'd rather it go to an interested hybridizer and I don't have room for two. LMK.
SoCal 10b Sunset 23
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby philip_la » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:12 am

I have R. setigera serena, though very small still. It's a female clone. It does propagate from cuttings fairly easily. If you want to trade, feel free to p.m. me and I'll see if I have A shoot to spare. (Might have a second small rooted cutting still alive, but it was in theory for another trade I need to follow up on. The mother plant from my prior home took a few years to bloom from a small cutting...
Philip F.
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby Karl K » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:24 am

philip_la wrote:Assuming the purported parentage is correct (R. setigera x Génie de Châteaubriand) I would assume that EaB should exhibit the dioecious qualities of it's mother species -- if it is even fertile...

Geschwind knew the Rubifolias (Hybrid Setigeras), but he did not mention the "pure" species. I suspect that he used Feast's 'Perpetual Pink', which opened pink then aged to purple.

Geschwind wrote that 'Perpetual Pink' was the only Rubifolia (Hybrid Setigera) that was suitable for use as a mourning rose. His 'Erinnerung an Brod' was also recommended as a mourning rose.

Uebrigens kann die Veredlung nur bei Topfexemplaren empfohlen werden; am geeignetsten bleibt die wurzelechte Anzucht, und als Trauerrosen eignet sich fast nur die Varietät: Perpetual Pink.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... a1864.html

Erinnerung an Brod, eine Hybride, die schon als Strauch gezogen die Neigung zum Hängen zeigt, hochstämmig veredelt, in gutem Boden aber zwei Meter lange Jahrestriebe macht, die im Zustande der Blüte bis zur Erde herabhängen. Die Blüte ist nahezu purpurn oder veilchenblau gefärbt und in dieser Farbe die einzige Rose, die sich einem wirklichen Blau in etwas nähert*). Von ferne gesehen erscheinen einzelne besonders dunkel gefärbte Blüten fast schwarz. Die einzelne grosse Blume ist dabei regelmässig kompakt gebaut und dicht gefüllt (ohne Staubgefrisse). Diese Rose, welche bei Herrn Franz Deegen junior in Köstritz Probe blüht, ist wegen ihrer düsteren Farbe die allerbeste und effektreichste Trauerrose für Gräber, um so mehr da sie dem strengsten Winter Trotz bietet.
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/Rose_Pict ... eBrod.html
Karl
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby philip_la » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:12 am

That makes sense also in view of the coloring of 'Perpetual Pink'. But Karl, you are sticking pins in my balloons -- I was hoping to use my setigera towards some other purples in view of this one. ;-)
Philip F.
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby Karl K » Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:20 am

philip_la wrote:That makes sense also in view of the coloring of 'Perpetual Pink'. But Karl, you are sticking pins in my balloons -- I was hoping to use my setigera towards some other purples in view of this one. ;-)

Philip,
I had thought of that, years ago. But after collecting info on all the Hybrid Rubifolias (H. Setigeras) I learned that 'Perpetual Pink' (=Perpetual Michigan) was the only one that tended towards purple. Apparently this color came in from the pollen parent (whoever he was).

I guess 'Erinneerung an Brod' is the best alternative if you want R. setigera ancestry. Unless someone can find 'Perpetual Pink' in an old garden.

http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... s1842.html
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... a1844.html
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... a1847.html
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... a1850.html
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Roses/breeding/ ... a1880.html

Karl
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Re: Erinnerung an (souvenir de) Brod?

Postby philip_la » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:45 pm

So, hypothetically speaking, what are the odds of a seedling of EaB being monoecious? My impression was that, as a second (errr... third?) generation setigera, the odds are favorable?
Philip F.
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