cold-hardy breeders

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donaldvancouver
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cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66697Post donaldvancouver
Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:38 am

Hi- I'm hoping to round out my collection of cold-hardy breeding plants. For the next year or two I'm concentrating on breeding repeat-blooming z3 roses with disease-resistant tender and half-tender roses. Tetraploids would be great but not a deal-breaker.

I have Frontenac and L83, and Bonica (not quite as hardy), Morden Sunrise (a fungal nightmare here). I also have Martin Frobisher who is the most beautiful thing but a reluctant breeder. (I also have some interesting once-bloomers like Wasagaming, Dr. Merkeley, Gay Centennial, R. alabukensis, Alika.) I have shovel-pruned Winnipeg Parks and Morden Centennial, but I may go back to M. Centennial as some of its offspring are looking healthy.

I would like to add a robust repeat bloomer to the mix: somebody who gets along well with others either in the pollen or seed department. If you had to choose, would you pick Jens Munk, Therese Bugnet, William Baffin or one of the Johns (Cabot or Davis)? I'm in zone 8, so Baffin would likely get huge here, as would John Davis. But I'm getting pretty good with the loppers. I do have about half an acre to play with now.

Also, I'm curious as to why some of the Explorers aren't used more, particularly such beauties as Lambert Closse and Quadra. Do they not breed well? I'm particularly interested in L. Closse's compact habit.

Thanks all

d
Zone 8, with warm dry summers, cool wet winters. Southern Gulf Islands, BC

Rob Byrnes
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66698Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:29 am

Donald,

I have Quadra, which is very healthy for me here in zone 7a. It is fertile both directions but I have yet to have F1 that have been healthy. It may be due to my choice of other parent so I've kept Quadra and will keep trying. This coming season I''ll be using Q with some of my own healthy miniatures and smaller shrubs.

Some other healthy and fertile zone 2-3 breeders that I'm using are Frontenac, Never Alone, Ramblin Red and Campfire.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

jbergeson
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66699Post jbergeson
Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:56 pm

Donald,

Once the cercospora gets to your area, a lot of the explorers will go down: William Baffin and John Davis, for instance, are highly susceptible. It's too bad, because they are super resistant to blackspot. John Davis is a good combination of hardiness and rebloom. William Baffin can produce a percentage of rebloomers.

I might suggest Above & Beyond. As a pollen parent it will produce a small percentage of rebloomers when combined with reblooming roses, but is good in terms of hardiness and disease resistance.

I have not tried Lambert Closse or Quadra. William Baffin I think is mostly a pollen donor (although a prolific one). John Davis is also pollen-only, from what I've heard.

Morden Sunrise will give heartbreakingly gorgeous seedlings (out of luscious fat hips and seeds) that will inevitably break down with horrendous blackspot.

I suggest Prairie Joy as a compromise between modern and hardy. Not a great seed setter or pollen maker but it can be used either way. Discard seedlings that don't bloom the first year.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66700Post Rob Byrnes
Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:04 pm

Joe,

I wish I had more room for Above and Beyond. Looks like a great rose and I like the color and the parentage.

Donald,

I forgot Cape Diamond: Marie-Victorin × Louis Jolliet. It is disease free for me here and is fertile. In HMF it's listed as zone 4 but I'd bet it would do fine in zone 3 based on parentage. The downside to CD is the plant architecture. It wants to send long cans out horizontally. I used it as a seed parent this past season with smaller stature roses with good architecture. Hopefully I'll get something promising out of those crosses.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66701Post Paul G. Olsen
Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:46 am

Donald,

In my opinion the best semi-hardy rose to use as a pistillate parent for a Zone 3 climate is 'Morden Centennial'. Very easy to work with and it can produce very good quality progeny. It's a mystery why it has produced only (if my memory is correct) one registered rose cultivar.

'George Vancouver' - I've always thought this cultivar has a lot of potential in a rose breeding program for a Zone 3 climate. A very tough rose for this climate (it can winter kill somewhat), but germinating its seeds has been a problem for me although I think it hasn't been for Charles P. I think in his experience it produces progeny having a tendency to sprawl but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Too many shrub rose cultivars have attractive flowers but nothing else of interest in landscapes.

'Henry Kelsey' - I've neglected it, especially using it as a pistillate parent, but now I'm getting good results combining it with 'Morden Centennial'. What I like about it is its excellent quality foliage, which is very important to me in developing roses.

'John Davis' - as indicated best used as a staminate parent. Unsurpassed for producing progeny having very double flowers and excellent form. 'Lambert Closse', for example.

'Lambert Closse' - lacks vigour and so perhaps that's why apparently it hasn't been much used in rose breeding programs. But thinking about it now I'd like to see it combined with 'Morden Centennial' because of the yellow via 'Arthur Bell' in its parentage. Progeny having peach coloured flowers?

'Jens Munk' - appears to have superior disease resistance in Rugosas. I'm going to work with it more.

Not nearly enough work has been done developing breeding lines combining Parkland and Explorer/Kordes Rosa kordesii cultivars. The potential for developing very good quality roses in this respect is likely unlimited.

pgeurts
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66703Post pgeurts
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:50 am

Donald,
While the Parkland roses generally have good flower and plant form, most were only crown hardy here except after a mild winter. They also tend to be quite susceptible to black spot and cerospora. I agree with Joe in that Prairie Joy is probably the best one, it is the only one I have left. I plan to do some crosses with it this coming year.

The Explorers are generally hardier and have better disease resistance than the Parklands except as Joe also mentioned they have become quite susceptible to cerospora. And as you noted some can be quite large. The one that I have used quite a bit and have a good number of seedlings from is Frontenac. It has good disease resistance and good form. It is a poor seed parent but is a good pollen parent. I have several William Baffin decedents as well. As mentioned before it tends to pass on sparse repeat bloom, but some seedlings do repeat well. It also passes on the suseptiblity to cerospora. The sparse repeat can be bread out by the second generation. I didn’t use John Cabot much when I had it. I never had John Davis but other members have used it quite a bit.

I used Bonica several times but none of the seedlings had good enough disease resistance to keep.

I had Alika for a number of years, but only used it a couple of times. It doesn’t produce many seeds so it would be best used as the pollen parent. I used it’s offspring, Scharlachglut several times as well because it is cross with a repeat bloomer. I only kept one seedling from it.

I have Therese Bugnet but have only used it a few times. It doesn’t produce many hips for me so I have used it mostly as the pollen parent. I do plan on using it in numerous crosses this coming year as well.

I have done lots of crosses with R.rugosa and several Hybrid Rugosas. The straight Rugosas are very healthy and very hardy, but tend to be sparse bloomers. The crosses I have done with them usually are quite susceptible to powdery mildew. I have pretty much given up on working with them, except I have an OP seedling that appears to be a cross with Commander Gillette. It’s a sparse bloomer as well but I plan doing a few crosses with as well.
Paul Geurts
Zone 4 Minnesota

donaldvancouver
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66704Post donaldvancouver
Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:05 am

Thanks all- this is very helpful.

I'm hoping I can breed disease resistance in from the tender side- I seem to be having some luck doing so. Some of the new Kordes roses are amazing- Eliza, Desmond Tutu, the Fairy Tale series- as well as some of the Harkness and Meillands. Very little fungal disease on these, even in my soggy climate. I'm hoping to add Savannah this year.
Zone 8, with warm dry summers, cool wet winters. Southern Gulf Islands, BC

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66705Post Paul G. Olsen
Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:36 pm

Donald,

Since it's in your neighbourhood (broadly speaking), I thought I would mention a couple of Meilland 'La Sevillana' rose plantings in Vancouver. Along with 'Bonica', this cultivar seems to be a favourite rose to use for commercial landscaping in the city. Or perhaps just a favourite rose of one landscaper. This is a (despite its stated parentage) disease resistant rose cultivar that is very showy of semi-double, orange- red flowers.

The downtown locations are Ricky's All Day Grill (a hedge) and the Home Depot (a bed).

So sources of pollen for you, if you can't find a plant to purchase.

I grew one likely selfed seedling from hips collected from the latter location. Very double red flowers but the plant lacked vigour.

Dingo2001
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66753Post Dingo2001
Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:29 pm

How about Party Hardy? Great disease resistance, and has been cane hardy here.
Julie
Zone 5

Rob Byrnes
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66762Post Rob Byrnes
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:17 am

I've had Party Hardy for one season and it had a lot of black spot. I'm hoping next season shows some improved resistance.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Paul G. Olsen
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66767Post Paul G. Olsen
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:34 pm

Donald,

I visited Brentwood Bay Nursery a couple of weeks ago and picked up a couple of roses. I was surprised that although this business will probably be no longer within a couple of years it continues to propagate and market roses including 'La Sevillana'. So it's probably a source for you if you want to obtain it.

donaldvancouver
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Re: cold-hardy breeders

Post: # 66770Post donaldvancouver
Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:17 am

Paul- thanks for the tip. I didn't realize Brentwood Bay were still in business- last time I visited it looked like they were closed for good.
Zone 8, with warm dry summers, cool wet winters. Southern Gulf Islands, BC

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