Species r. arkansas breeding experience?

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Species r. arkansas breeding experience?

Postby doug wild » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:46 pm

This summer we had our annual family get-together at a location on the south-facing slopes of the Peace River valley in northern Alberta, Canada...about 300 miles north of the city of Edmonton...USDA Zone 2. This undisturbed area is home to r. acicularis and r. woodsii and their variants...but on a walk through the grassed ridges and coulees, I came across a colony of this:

[attachment=1]IMG_0407.JPG[/attachment]

What grabbed my attention first was the hulthemia blotch pattern on the petals (bottom photo). And a few meters away I discovered a different floral pattern:

[attachment=0]IMG_0451.JPG[/attachment]

The vegatative characteristics were different from r. acicularis or r. woodsii and, to my eye, fitted the taxonomy characteristics of r. arkansas...just was a bit surprised that it was this far north.

Henry Marshall had used r. arkansas/r. suffalta in the development of Assiniboine and Assiniboine's progeny, Cuthbert Grant. Cuthbert Grant I have grown and used in breeding but I could never get a healthy seedling from Cuthbert Grant. It is one of the most fragrant semi-hardy roses but I couldn't get it to establish even with winter protection.

In the wild here r. arkansas appears to bloom on new growth and grows in the most exposed slopes...both acceptable traits.

I harvested some pollen and applied it to Eyes for You...long shot...thinking I could enhance the species blotch in the second photo below...and have a hip or two from that cross.

Has anyone used r. arkansas in their breeding program? Any thoughts as to what I might expect or recommendations of other seed parents to use?
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variant r. arkansas
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variant r. arkansas
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Re: Species r. arkansas breeding experience?

Postby Paul G. Olsen » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:51 pm

Doug,

A few comments.

Note the photos of 'Morden Ruby' on HMF Roses. They have a mottled appearance because of the sporting of the original flower red colour. This mottling characteristic may be the result of Rosa arkansana in the pedigree of this rose cultivar. However, I don't think it's been established the markings/mottling characteristic of some Rosa arkansana population flowers commonly show up in hybrids of this species. For sure, a good breeding project to work on!

It's always mystified me why Henry Marshall of the Morden Research Station apparently never developed a breeding program using yellow Floribundas and HT's with Rosa arkansana. It's possible he began one, but maybe there were too many disease problems to continue it. Regardless, I think it should be attempted. I would begin by crossing 'Sunsprite', 'Morden Sunrise' or 'Bill Reid' with Rosa arkansana.

My focus on using Rosa arkansana (and 'Assiniboine') is crossing it with Rosa gallica to develop very tough, drought resistant roses. Keep in mind Rosa arkansana could be valuable in a breeding program because of its deep roots and that is why it is drought resistant. However, I don't expect these hybrids to be too disease resistant, but maybe they would do okay growing in a Prairie Climate.

While Mr. Marshall was successful developing a rose breeding program by primarily crossing Floribundas with Rosa arkansana, he didn't work with the Meidiland landscape roses (I don't think they were developed yet when he worked at Morden) that generally have very good disease resistance. So this is another route you might consider taking in a breeding program with Rosa arkansana. However, I think there is more potential developing a Meidiland x Rosa kordesii breeding program but not for very severe climates (Zone 2 - 3), of course.
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Re: Species r. arkansas breeding experience?

Postby jbergeson » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:29 am

We have to keep in mind the caveats presented in a recent thread about working with species. Your R. arkansana might be very different than mine.

I got my R. arkansana from Lawyer Nursery at the same time that I got my R. carolina, R. virginiana, R. acicularis, and R. woodsii from them. Five of each species went into the row. The R. arkansana were the first and only ones so far to get grubbed out...they were sprawly, slow to develop, and maybe had some diseases. Crosses using them as a seed parent all failed.

One of them, however, did have an interesting thin, darker line down the center of each petal. I'll see if I can find a pic...probably posted it already her a couple years ago. I might have a seedling of Art Nouveau X that striped R. arkansana growing that has not bloomed yet. (My code name for that seedling was ARK1, which was the same code David Z uses for an OP Arkansana likely hybrid of his...I've used both so I'm not 100% sure the ARK1 in this cross was from my R. arkansana but I think so because I know I really wanted to make that cross of a striped species )
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Re: Species r. arkansas breeding experience?

Postby jbergeson » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:51 am

Found it. Gosh, that was pretty! I didn't grub this plant out, but it got eaten by a nearby R. carolina and probably no longer exists.
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Re: Species r. arkansas breeding experience?

Postby jbergeson » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:09 am

Sorry, kind of a side note regarding Paul Olsen's mention of R. gallica.

The only Gallicas I've used are the Apothecary's Rose and Tuscany Superb. I get the feeling that they can give excellent vigor and some disease resistance in crosses. In some ways the seedlings outperform the parents. That is the case with my Tuscany Superb x Persian Yellow-or-more-likely-Morden-6910 seedling. My Tuscany Superb is just clinging to life - winter dieback and ugly foliar problems, but the seedling is much much better.

I made crosses with the Apothecary's Rose back before I understood about ploidy and the dominance of non-reblooming genes. I no longer have the Apothecary's rose but if I did I would use it because the seedlings inherited excellent crown vigor and like the Tuscany Superb x M6910 seedling they seemed to get bigger than either parent. Some were healthy and some were not, but the modern parents included Morden Blush so what can you expect. If I still had it I'd cross Apothecary's Rose with some of my tetraploid species mashups that include R. carolina. For instance, I have a bunch of (R. carolina x R. centifolia) x (R. acicularis x [r. calocarpa x R. nutkana]) seedlings started...it would be so much fun, if any turn out to be handsome & robust, to cross them with Apothecary's rose. I'm addicted to this path of creating a species mashup although it doesn't seem likely to lead to the creation of a marketable rose within the next few decades.

-Joe
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