Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

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Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby jbergeson » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:38 pm

Hi,

If any of you research-minded plant geeks have the time and inclination, I would love to find out more about the new sedum "Sunsparkler Blue Elf", which is supposedly the first interspecific hybrid of Sedum and Orostachys. Specifically I'm interested in info that might suggest how hardy the plant might be such as the specific species of Orostachys that was used. A quick google of Orostachys yields different species listed from Zone 2 to Zone 6.

I might be inclined to get some of the hardiest Orostachys, a genus of which I have not previously heard of, and try to create another successful intergeneric cross with Sedum, which are one of our go-to perennials around here in Minnesota. In the short term I would be very happy if this new plant was created with one of the extra hardy Orostachi.

Joe
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Re: Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby jbergeson » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Well, ok, sorry, I could have googled it myself in less time than it took to write that post, but maybe some of my fellow plant geeks will be interested:

http://patents.justia.com/patent/PP27113
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Re: Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby jriekstins » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Joe, This is some of what I have found and based on this information, if it is true, then it is not so much of a mystery as to why this cross 'worked'. The "Sedum" cross sounded intriguing. What do you think?

General Information | Species | Hybrids | Cultivars
"XSEDORO" 'Blue Elf'

Published on a US website : http://www.sunsparklersedums.com/2014/1 ... -elf-ppaf/

The parentage is indicated as Sedum x Orostachys. Unfortunately the breeder has ignored that the "Sedum" he has used in fact is a species of genus Hylotelephium, so the correct parentage is Hylotelephium x Orostachys And unfortunately the "experts" he has contacted did not know either how the name of a nothogenus (hybrid genus) has to be formed to correspond to the rules of the Code (Art. H.6.2) : It has to be the first part or whole of one name & the second part of the other. He however has combined the first part of both ! ! ! Moreover he has published the name only on his website - to be valid such a name has to be published in a printed journal with an ISSN or an ISBN number.

That means the name "xSedoro 'Blue Elf' " is invalid in all respects.

As there exists no nothgenus name yet, the correct name of this hybrid is :

Hylotelephium x Orostachys 'Blue Elf'. (A possible correct nothogenus name could read xHylostachys.)

The fact that it has been possible to create a hybrid of these two genera is not a surprise, DNA data show that Hylotelephium and Orostachys are closely related.
]Jackie, SoCal., zone 9b,coastal foothills
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Re: Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby jriekstins » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:40 pm

This is copied from the International Crassulaceae network.
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Crassulaceae - General Information

International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated Plants


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CRASSULACEA
THE CACTICIAN




Hylotelephium
General Information | Species | Hybrids | Cultivars
"XSEDORO" 'Blue Elf'

Published on a US website : http://www.sunsparklersedums.com/2014/1 ... -elf-ppaf/

The parentage is indicated as Sedum x Orostachys. Unfortunately the breeder has ignored that the "Sedum" he has used in fact is a species of genus Hylotelephium, so the correct parentage is Hylotelephium x Orostachys And unfortunately the "experts" he has contacted did not know either how the name of a nothogenus (hybrid genus) has to be formed to correspond to the rules of the Code (Art. H.6.2) : It has to be the first part or whole of one name & the second part of the other. He however has combined the first part of both ! ! ! Moreover he has published the name only on his website - to be valid such a name has to be published in a printed journal with an ISSN or an ISBN number.

That means the name "xSedoro 'Blue Elf' " is invalid in all respects.

As there exists no nothgenus name yet, the correct name of this hybrid is :

Hylotelephium x Orostachys 'Blue Elf'. (A possible correct nothogenus name could read xHylostachys.)

The fact that it has been possible to create a hybrid of these two genera is not a surprise, DNA data show that Hylotelephium and Orostachys are closely related.
]Jackie, SoCal., zone 9b,coastal foothills
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Re: Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby jbergeson » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:00 pm

Thanks for that info, Jackie. I wonder how many of the sedums that I sell are actually Hylotelephium.

I'm more of a pragmatist than a botanist, so I'm just going to call it Blue Elf Sedum. Don't hate me.
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Re: Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby Larry Davis » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:17 pm

The thing that impressed me is, if the patent is to be believed, they started the first propagation in Aug 2013 and were able to introduce it as new in 2015. I don't think you could get that far that fast even with budding in roses. With a doubling time of 5 days in ideal greenhouse conditions, you could go from 1 cutting to a million in 500 days, but that's really moving. And to be able to sell plants with multiple stems, like gallon pots, or even quarts would take a few more months.

Must be a really soft market, no disease testing, no climatic range testing. They say zones 4-9, whatever that means today. It is a striking plant, earlier than chrysanthemums and presumably relatively drought tolerant.

Maybe I'm in the wrong business.
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Re: Off topic: Sedum x Orostachys "Blue Elf"

Postby jbergeson » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:33 am

Larry,

Things in the sedum family are super easy to root. One leaf can make a new plant.

Around here they are generally Zone 3 hardy, drought tolerant, and accepting of our alkaline soils. Perhaps the third most "go-to" perennial after daylilies and hosta.

That's why I was so excited to see Orstachys listed someplace as an extremely hardy succulent. This is a quote from that page, which might interest the scientists:

"One species, Orostachys spinosa originating in Siberia and Mongolia, is reported to be the most cold tolerant of all plants that have Crassulacean Acid Metabolism systems. They can survive down to -40 degrees Celsius, and can even photosynthesize under snow cover. "

It would be fun if this plant creates viable seed, as there might be interesting segregation. Just grow out tons and tons of seedlings, pick a winner, and in two years bring it to market like you say, Larry.
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