chuckp wrote:Karl, with the breeding work of Luther Burbank that you cited in mind. I know a place with many variants of rosa
Acicularis base on flower form. Should I be able to find naturally accruing double Flower hybrid seedlings?
jbergeson wrote:What if it is a 4 + 2 Caninae style? Like if a 4 + 1 pentaploid Canina got pollinated by a 2 + 2 spinosissima. Then HT pollen would yield hexaploids and using its pollen on tetraploid HTs would yield tetraploids.
Peter Harris wrote:Just taking a chance--
I googled for the ploidy of Irish Fireflame.
http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitst ... er%205.pdf
P. 40 says Irish Fireflame is triploid.
roseseek wrote:Very interesting, Karl, thank you. I've never found anything indicating it was a sport of Elegance. Growing both for years, I would never have even considered it as a sport. Fireflame looks much more like a Pernetiana than Elegance.
If you haven't already, would you please put that reference in HMF for Fireflame? Thank you!
A Rose Odyssey (1937: p123-124)
J H Nicolas
In 1933 I had found a curious sport on Margaret McGredy. The foliage strongly resembled Rugosa but the plant characteristics also leaned toward R. cinnamomea. I mentioned this fact to Sam III [McGredy] when I visited him in 1934. Sam could not account for the sport. He had never used species in his breeding. His brother-in-law, Walter I. Johnston, spoke up, "Your father did much more work with species." We adjourned to the office, where complete hybridizing records from the early days of the firm are kept, one volume for each year, a valuable library. After several hours of research we traced the origin of Margaret McGredy to crosses of Rugosa and Cinnamomea. They were, of course, many generations back. But as these two species are in the blood stream of Margaret McGredy and all modern McGredy roses, the possibility of the sport was explained. It is an accepted fact that hybrids alone sport (pure species mutate, but rarely, if ever, sport) and can sport only within what is in them.*
Lately, the most unusual thing has happened to that sport. A sport is supposed to be a part of the hybrid compound which "took a walk". But this sport must have carried the whole pack as it has sported again a Hybrid Tea type with a magnificent bloom much more intensely colored than the original Margaret McGredy and is a distinctly a different rose. I am planning to name it "Margaret Second".
Gardeners’ Chronicle, p. 181 (Sept 8, 1900)
NEW VARIETIES OF ROSES.
By “Wild Rose”
"To Messrs. Dickson & Sons, of Newtownards, must be accorded the honour of introducing a race of single flowered Teas, and Hybrid Teas, in which these two objections, the rampant growth and too evanescent character of their blooms, have been obviated. These raisers have succeeded in obtaining some very beautiful flowers which are bound to find their place in most Rose gardens of the future. They are dwarf in habit and they flower continuously from June to November. At a recent show in Belfast this firm obtained the 1st prize for twelve single-flowered Roses, eleven of them being of their own raising, the twelfth being white Rugosa. The three most remarkable of these are Irish Beauty, Irish Modesty, and Irish Glory. These varieties were shown a year ago at the Crystal Palace, and were much admired. Mr. Burrell, of Cambridge, who has recently seen them at home, thinks very highly of them, and he is no mean judge."
Eversley Gardens and Others, p. 147 (1907)
By Rose Georgina Kingsley
Messrs. Alex. Dickson & Sons, of Newtonards, have recently introduced a number of very interesting single Hybrid Teas, beginning with Irish Beauty, Irish Glory, and Irish Modesty, in 1900; the singularly brilliant Irish Star, Irish Brightness, Irish Pride, in I903; followed by the dazzling scarlet Irish Engineer, Irish Harmony, and Irish Elegance, in 1904-5. In foliage, growth, fragrance, and peculiar brilliancy of colour, this new race of Roses is a valuable acquisition to the garden. They are all free-growing, of branching habit, and admirably suited for cultivation as isolated bushes; for they attain a considerable size very quickly, and are covered with flowers till the frosts cut them.