Kevin Brownlee wrote:Karl - I'm curious, if I'm following this thread accurately, why you don't also suspect thunbergia of being a hybrid. It's very drought tolerant. I think that's true of any plant adapted to the desert-like conditions of the beach. Fru Dagmar Hastrup strikes me as the most regeliana-like rugosa on the market, with its larger flowers, larger, lusher foliage and smaller stature. I have a hedge of 50 FDH and it not infrequently sports (or reverts?) to a consistent deep purple. I can't shake the suspicion that it's a sport of regeliana.
The Garden: An Illustrated Weekly Journal of Gardening, Volume 56, page 2 (July 1, 1899)
Rosa ferox from Canon Ellacombe, though not in flower, was interesting. It has tiny foliage, smaller than in Wichuraiana, but in appearance much resembles the hedge Briers.
Kevin Brownlee wrote:Sorry, Karl - My fault for typing on my phone: thunbergiana. I'll post pics of the sporting FDHs this spring. One, that I've been meaning to dig for a few seasons, has virtually no pink left. I obtained some regeliana seed this year. It's markedly smaller than any other rugosa seed I've seen.
The amateur or professional breeder should be aware that the breeding behavior of the interspecific hybrid is considerably different than that of intraspecific hybrids in that characters are inherited in entire chromosomes or blocks of chromosomal material. As a result, genes are linked in inheritance and do not assort independently. Such linkage may persist for generations.
Examples of this are found in the Fate hybrid of P. grandiflorus x P. murrayanus. In the Fate hybrid the narrow corolla, perfoliate bract and elongate inflorescence of P. murrayanus has persisted through 15 or more generations as have the inflated corolla, non-perfoliate but clasping bracts and more compact inflorescence of P. grandiflorus. The two forms are interfertile but the three characters retain the original association without recombining.
In the case of the Flathead Lake complex, the "shark head" corolla shape of P. barbatus and P. labrosus dominate flower shape to the exclusion of the spreading lobes of all blue flowered parental species. Only by repeated backcrosses to a species having spreading lobes are the erect upper and reflexed lower lobes replaced by the character of spreading lobes.
Kevin Brownlee wrote:Would this hypothesis then also assert that the multi-flowered repeat-blooming rugosas naturalized in New England, Washington State and Alaska are a hybrid and, more specifically, regeliana? That would run counter to common understanding. I admire your stamina on this subject, Karl! I agreed it's a mire. I waded in to a point and stopped at thunbergiana vs. regeliana for my own peace of mind.
Hardy Roses for South Dakota p. 13 (June 1929)
N. E. Hansen
Rosa rugosa Flore Plena.--For more than twenty years this double red-flowered form of Rosa rugosa has blossomed freely and proven very hardy at this Station. The flowers are intensely fragrant, dark purple red, very double, with up to 49 petals, and many stamens. The flowers are 2 1/2 inches in diameter, and open up flat; in the bud the petals are somewhat erect. The leaflets are smaller and narrower than in the type. Plants thorny, very vigorous and hardy. No record is available as to the origin of this rose, or when it was first imported. The plants described were selected by N. E. Hansen, In 1906, in the Regel Kesselring Nursery, St. Petersburg, Russia, Rosa rugosa rubra plena or Empress of the North is credited to Dr. Eduard von Regel 1815-1892, Director of the Botanic Gardens, St. Petersburg, Russia. Dr. Leopold Dippel in Laubholzkunde, Berlin, 1893, mentions what is probably the same as Rosa Rugosa plena, Empress of the North, (Kaiserin des Nordens) with double purple red flowers. W. J. Bean of the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, England, calls this rose Rosa Rugosa va flore pleno.
Flora of Japan (1965) pp. 540-541
5. Rosa rugosa Thunb. R. ferox Lawrance; R. kamtschatica var. ferox (Lawrance) Géel; R. rugosa var. thunbergiana C. A. Mey.; R. rugosa var. ferox (Lawrance) C. A. Mey.—HAMA-NASU. Erect bushy shrub with stout densely short-pubescent branches with needlelike slender spines and stout flattened short-pubescent prickles; stipules broad, membranous, the free portion broadly ovate or deltoid; leaflets 7-9, nearly equal, oblong, elliptic or obovate, 3-5 cm. long, 2-3 cm. wide, obtuse to rounded, glabrous and minutely bullate or rugulose above, densely cinereous hairy and with sessile pale glandular dots; flowers 1-3, terminal, 6-10 cm. across, deep rose, the pedicels stout, erect, 1-3 cm. long, with slender prickles; calyx with a depressed-globose tube, the lobes 3-4 cm. long, appressed-pubescent and with slender prickles, sometimes with short stipitate glands; fruit subglobose, yellowish red, 2-2.5 cm. across.—June-Aug. Sandy shores; Hokkaido, Honshu on Pacific side south to n. Kantô and on Japan Sea side south to San'in Distr.).—Temperate and northern parts of e. Asia to the Kuriles, Kamchatka, and Sakhalin.
https://archive.org/stream/floraofjapan ... 0/mode/2up
A Voyage to the Pacific Ocean, for Making Discoveries in the Northern Hemisphere, vol. 4, page 121 (1784)
By James Cook, Rev. James King
This peninsula [Kamchatka] produces great abundance of the shrub kind, as mountain ash, junipers, ras-berry bushes, and wild rose-trees. Also a variety of berries, as partridge-berries, blue-berries, black-berries, cran-berries, and crow-berries. These are gathered at proper seasons, and preserved by mashing them into a thick jam. They constitute a considerable part of their winter provisions, serving as a general sauce to their dried fish. They also eat them in puddings, and in various other modes; and make decoctions of them for their common beverage.
https://books.google.com/books?id=G00bA ... &q&f=false