Finally a splotch!

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Judith Singer
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Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63640Post Judith Singer
Wed May 25, 2016 8:16 pm

I think this is a Show 'n Tell x Halo Glory cross, but tag missing so I can't be certain. Old bloom but it does have the splotch!

Yay!
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Splotch!.jpg

roseseek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63643Post roseseek
Thu May 26, 2016 12:31 am

Congratulations! It also is what First Impression ages to much of the time.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

jmarek
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Location: Santa Monica, California - USDA Zone 10b - Sunset Zone 24
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63644Post jmarek
Thu May 26, 2016 1:03 am

Congrats Judith. Is it more of a strong halo or a hulthemia blotch? If the latter, where's it coming from in that cross??

Rob Byrnes
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63645Post Rob Byrnes
Thu May 26, 2016 8:11 am

Nice Judith! I'm still trying to obtain a blotch. This year I'm crossing Bull's Eye and Eyes for you. Hopefully I'll get as nice a blotch as you obtained.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

Judith Singer
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63649Post Judith Singer
Thu May 26, 2016 12:18 pm

The blotch I'm quite sure is from Halo Glory. As the tag was missing I can't be positive, but I'd say it's a 90% probability. Not a hulthemia cross that I know of, but maybe Kim can shed more light on the parentage of Halo Glory. I did get some seedlings from a hulthemia cross this season, but none had a blotch.

roseseek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63655Post roseseek
Sat May 28, 2016 11:19 am

No Hulthemia involved in Halo Glory. Gold Badge X (Anytime X Angel Face).
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Rosesbydesign
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63665Post Rosesbydesign
Tue May 31, 2016 12:02 am

Nice! If you would like Hulthemia blotches, Lychee Lemonade has been the most reliable of the lemonade series, but if you would like something even better, I would be happy to send you something this winter.

jmarek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63667Post jmarek
Tue May 31, 2016 3:32 am

Jim, sign me up for the "something even better"! Ive been able to create a couple of good seed and pollen parents all from your M37-1 that you shared with me five years ago. Would love to increase the breeding blotch lines!

Judith Singer
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 63669Post Judith Singer
Tue May 31, 2016 8:40 pm

[quote="Rosesbydesign"]Nice! If you would like Hulthemia blotches, Lychee Lemonade has been the most reliable of the lemonade series, but if you would like something even better, I would be happy to send you something this winter.[/quote]
I would love it! Let's talk this winter.

Jude

Karl K
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70804Post Karl K
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:48 am

I understand that the Moore Halo and the Hulthemia Blotch are different patterns. Has anyone tried combining them to learn whether there is some interaction?

roseseek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70805Post roseseek
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:04 am

Mr. Moore did...

Persian Autumn https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.38245 The pollen parent was "Anytime X Goldbadge" which was a Halo breeder.
Persian Sunset https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.40105 "Ralph Moore's Spring 2006 Minirama from Sequoia Nursery says that the pollen parent is an "un-named 'Halo' variety." " Which could easily have been the same Anytime X Goldbadge.

Plus, there were quite a few other Halo X Tigris seedlings hanging around the nursery which were never introduced.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Don
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70806Post Don
Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:33 am

The seed parent of this seedling was Persian Sunset.
mug.jpg
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

Karl K
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70809Post Karl K
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:09 pm

roseseek wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:04 am
Mr. Moore did...

Plus, there were quite a few other Halo X Tigris seedlings hanging around the nursery which were never introduced.
So, no spectacular interactions. One can always dream.

Next question
How is the Hulthemia blotching inherited? It appears to be dominant, at least in some crosses.

Does the trait segregate neatly (definite blotches vs. nothing) or are their degrees of expression?

Is the trait more emphatic when homozygous?

Don
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70810Post Don
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:41 pm

Here are my notes from an article by Jim Sproul posted somewhere on HMF:

"It appears that the "blotch" gene (or genes) is linked to genes coding for non-remontancy (that is non-repeat blooming), willowy growth, disease susceptibility and needle-like prickles. It also appears that there are several aspects of the blotch itself that may be independently coded for: blotch size and shape, blotch color, and intensity of color."

"The blotch itself seems to be transmitted as a dominant characteristic. What is not clear to me is whether the blotch is coded for by a single gene, or by multiple genes. The blotch varies considerable in size and intensity, and has been seen in various colors from orange, to red, to purple."
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

roseseek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70811Post roseseek
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:45 pm

Jim needs to add more here as he has shared quite a bit in new photos on Face Book. The blotch appears to have morphed its expression quite a bit into other petal color forms and combinations.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Don
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70812Post Don
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:22 pm

Do you have a link, Kim?

>> Face Book
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

roseseek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70813Post roseseek
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:35 pm

Here are a few of the morphed splotch photos. The blotch appears to be breaking up into stippling through the center of the petals.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Plazbo
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70814Post Plazbo
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:05 pm

I can also confirm it's dominant gene. Having raised many hundreds (or more) seedlings from the diploid Sweet Spot Calypso, many being selfed OP's (every flower turns into a hip, I sow everything...), there's instances where the blotch isn't inherited (indicating SSC is heterzygous for the gene/s) or the blotch is tiny (possibly some other gene/s affect it's appearance). In the vast majority of cases though it's selfings are blotched....which would be expected if using simple mendelian theory.


Intentional crosses is more of a mixed bag, it's still roughly half having a blotch, but the appearance of the blotch varies more in size and strength.

"It appears that the "blotch" gene (or genes) is linked to genes coding for non-remontancy (that is non-repeat blooming), willowy growth, disease susceptibility and needle-like prickles. "

Ehh....not convinced. If close to species, it's likely just the lack of filtering out the other genes yet rather than specific linkage like Moss and Thorns. The species being adapted to such a vastly different environment to the average person's garden and not really fitting the desired aesthetic for plant architecture....it's just not likely to mesh well out of the box with anything.

Tigris is first gen from and is listed as an occasional repeater despite persica being a once bloomer.

Sweet Spot Calyspo is a continous bloomer as are the few children I've kept of it, it's not willowy, more shrubby/upright. It's also fairly low thorn (granted one of it's selfed yellow seedlings I have has very spiky hips as a more matured plant, assume a throw back to the species). SSC's health is poor though.

Bright As A Button/Raspberry Kiss and Candy Eyes have nasty thorns but very healthy here, BAAB/RK is 4th gen from.
Anyone able to send rosa californica (op) seeds to me in Australia?

Karl K
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70825Post Karl K
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:22 pm

I found some answers to my questions ... asked and unasked .. on Jim Sproul's blog.
http://sproulroses.blogspot.com/2011/06/

There are some really exciting possibilities in there, and even more (perhaps) when combined with reverse bicolors (more red pigment on reverse).

roseseek
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Re: Finally a splotch!

Post: # 70826Post roseseek
Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:47 pm

Thank you for finding that, Karl. That is what I had earlier referred to. Kim
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

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