Out, darned spot! Out I say!

[Charles Calaforra]

The dictionary definition of disappointment is having a seedling with a large beautifully formed flower, great color, fragrant, vigorous, well branched, completely free of blackspot, self cleaning, easy to root, very double but opens perfectly every time, floriferous, which defoliates from those small round spot anthracnose/cercospora. Out, darned spot! Out I say! Still there. Sigh.

[jriekstins]

That's got to be disappointing, but it is hard to say that anyone here might never have been there. At least I know I have, just different spots.

[Charles Calaforra]

Many people here know the feeling I'm sure. Close, but no cigar. Normally I'd self it to try to fix it's little problem, but it seems completely sterile. I've had it about a year now and it's never made a single anther and won't make hips either. Oh well, step back to the parents and try it again.

[Judith Singer]

One of my best seedlings, has spots - not from any disease that we can tell. Just spots! Very frustrating.

[Charles Calaforra]

For some reason, I just pictured a rose with bright, multi colored, polka dotted leaves. The future of genetic engineering can't get here fast enough.

[Judith Singer]

I wish that were so!

[Don]

>> large beautifully formed flower, great color, fragrant, vigorous, well branched, completely free of blackspot, self cleaning, easy to root, very double but opens perfectly every time, floriferous

Which makes it a very appropriate source of refinements for 'spot' resistance breeding. Pick some resistant mates and have a go.

[roseseek]

Or, pass it on to someone else who may not have that issue in their climate.

[Don]

>> pass it on to someone else who may not have that issue in their climate.

Like maybe someone outside Encino?

Anyway, running away from the problem doesn't solve it :)

[roseseek]

I don't know if his type of "spotting" will occur here or not. We have a LOT of fog and heavy dew here which remains on the foliage until the sun's been up quite a while. Many of my roses "sun burn" to darker shades from such water spotting and sun. One, I have to put in the shade. The whole plant turned purple and began failing. In the shade, it has returned to green and seems to be starting to grow. Weird. I know we'll have mildew and rust, perhaps Downy. It's going to be interesting finding out.

[jriekstins]

Oh I bet you will have downy. And during the latter warm parts of the summer and fall, all the other things will probably show up some--just not like at your old residence. This is one of the first springs in a long time that Downy mildew has not made an appearance yet. It is also the first time since I have lived here that a long blooming rose can go through the whole bloom season in about 7-10 days. Fog and dew are about as hard to import as is water.

[roseseek]

Gee,thanks. Well, if and when it appears, that will be my first trait for which to cull. Followed by rust, then mildew. IF anything is left....

[andre carl]

I share your pain with a few of my roses that just won't produce pollen and refuse to set hips. As Kim mentioned, try sending a cutting to several people located in different regions, but with the goal that perhaps you can get it to an environment that may produce a few anthers for pollen that can be sent back your way. Or maybe in the heat of summer the petal count might decrease enough and it will produce more anthers right there.

I only mention this because that is what I have to do with White Cap. I love White Cap but sadly it is so full it won't produce any pollen and it is extremely picky with setting hips. But I have been able to get a few (about 6-10) anthers out of it when it is extremely hot and dry here in Iowa (85 - 100 degrees - its all relative) because it produces fewer petals. I just freeze them and use them the following year. We gotta do what we gotta do.

[Judith Singer]

We don't have downy or black spot in this climate and our humidity is very low. And it (according to UofA analysis) doesn't appear to be fungal. I'm not sure it's at all climate related. This rose, and it's spotty siblings, is out of Route 66.[attachment=1]SM_3548.JPG[/attachment][attachment=0]Spotting.JPG[/attachment]

[philip_la]

I'm confused, Charles, I thought that was the dictionary definition of rose hybridizing.

[Charles Calaforra]

Andre- that's a good point about mid summer anther production, I'll be sure to check it closely.
Judith- I'm not sure what that is, maybe someone here knows?

I'm sending copies of my seedling out west. Hopefully it likes it there. Walking around the garden this morning I realized most of my Kordes ADR winners, Darlow's Enigma, Peach Drift, and Mother of Pearl have these same spots, so at least it is in good company.

[Don]

>> I'm not sure it's at all climate related. This rose, and it's spotty siblings, is out of Route 66.

We really need to recruit a plant pathologist to join us here.

I wonder, though, if those particular spots are actually a pathogen or whether they might be chemical. I had something similar on blueberries when I spritzed some glyphosate too close to their roots.

[Judith Singer]

Not chemical, as I rarely use any. And it's only the seedlings of Rt. 66 that show this.

[roseseek]

I've regularly noticed the "sun burning" issues here and in Encino, where it is hotter, though with a lower UV index. Here, I had sprayed Bug B Gone in an effort to control the fleas in the yard and the blamed crane flies, but only in the gravel areas where the canned roses sat. As I've repotted them, I've moved them on to the potting soil bags I've opened into sheets and placed on the awful "turf" in hopes of killing some of it. Many roses spotted rather badly, which I presumed was likely due to the Bug B Gone. All temps remained well below 80 F before and after the spray. Some spot heavily, some, not at all. MANY turn purple in response to the sun and all which I've moved into the dappled shade, have returned to green. A very few appear distorted, almost "arthritic" when exposed to the high UV, but level out once placed in significantly reduced direct sun. Other than the one application of the insecticide, nothing other than tap water has been sprayed on the foliage. Nothing other than tap water has been used in the pots. The soils have been varied, depending upon what I could find at the prices I wished to pay. Most has been the traditional MG Moisture Control with coir, which I have used regularly for more than a decade. A good portion has been the "new" MG Moisture Control "Organic" with "compost from landfill material". It has a dramatically different texture and consistency than the coir product and contains no perlite. The coir material has a lot. The "organic" product stinks as if your septic has issues and has taken three weeks of exposure to the elements to lose the stench. The coir product has some scent, but nothing in comparison. Most which were planted in the "organic" have ceased growth until whatever it is gets flushed through the soil, then they begin growing new, chlorotic growth. The coir material produces traditional, expected growth. I have unpotted a few of those in the "organic" material and found the plants' roots infiltrating it densely, quite quickly, compared to the coir product. The foliage spotting appears to be greater in the 'organic" product. I see much of the same "necrosis" pictured above in many types, commercial and seedling. And, I see the cane spotting on all types, with and without any visible leaf issues. One seedling, in particular, expresses the purple spotting heavily, but only on the upper surfaces. It had ceased growth above ground, but is now pushing new growth. This is April Mooncrest X Miracle on the Hudson. The purple is primarily on the upper surfaces with very little on the reverses. But, it still seems like a response to light/heat instead of fungal. Am I missing something?

The only dying foliage is old, from prior to the move, and had been cooked and damaged in transit.

[Judith Singer]

Hmm, found this in a comment on Helpmefind about Route 66 "One of the series of Tom Carruth roses that bring the deep purple shades to modern repeat blooming roses with good disease resistance. Most of them suffer some leaf spot in my coastal climate."

New goal! To get a good Route 66 seedling with the fragrance of "Sweet Milo" but without the spotting!