Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

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philip_la
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Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60037Post philip_la
Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:34 am

There's a lot to be said for them, but I have some bugaboos with the HM's. Maybe I'm just missing the point and beauty of them?

Never having used this class, I wondered how easy it is to
1.) hang a larger flower on progeny -- most of the HM's I have seen have flowers under 1 1/2 inches in diameter in my area
2.) control the broad arching sprawl -- most of the ones I'M familiar with have trusses at the ends of long canes and want to be more than 5' across before looking decent in the landscape. How easily is the apical dominance broken down, and blooms along the canes encouraged?

Am I just missing the point? Is this kinda like saying, how do I make a climber not climb?

What other insights might folks have about these?

Thanks for your input; you might think I would know something more about these...
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

roseseek
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60040Post roseseek
Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:50 pm

It can be fairly easy to hang larger flowers on them. Think Sally Holmes. She's Ivory Fashion X Ballerina, so she's every bit a "hybrid musk" as any of the others. As far as controlling the arching, reaching spread, also consider Iceberg. From its breeding, it's also pretty much a "hybrid musk". Perhaps this might help? http://pushingtheroseenvelope.blogspot. ... s-and.html
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

andre carl
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60041Post andre carl
Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:55 pm

I plan on working with this group a little bit more over the next few years and was thinking the same thing. But my main issue is the sprawl and not so much the size of the bloom.

What I am thinking about doing is making this a two step process (being done at the same time). I want to shorten the spread by crossing the HMs with my short polys and a few of my miniatures - mainly those that show good clustering. The entire goal for these crosses would be to maintain the nice clusters of the HM. I have also seen a few HMS become more manageable by just collecting the OPs or doing self pollinations (only on hmf for the selfs) and then selecting for the short one. The few seedlings of OPs from my HMs are all the shorter versions of the parent.

In order to enlarge the blooms I am going to cross the HMs with my large bloomed shrub roses and a few, carefully selected HTs and Fls. I wish I had an HT like Dainty Bess or White Wings as I recall somewhere reading that they can produce offspring with large blooms. What I envision coming out of this line would be something like Sally Holmes which is a FL (Ivory Fashion) X a HM (Ballerina). I would use SH more but she just isn't willing for me so I need to follow other routes.

The HMs I am going to use is Robin Hood, Mozart, Aptos, Trier, and Darlow's Enigma. Hopefully I can keep a lot of the characteristics in these varieties but with a more manageable size and larger bloom size.

philip_la
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60045Post philip_la
Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:55 pm

I'll be darned... I didn't know that was Iceberg's parentage. I just attempted a cross between Burgundy Iceberg and Violet Hood on a whim. Not that I expect it to take, but if it did, it might not provide the desired outcome then! LOL. (Maybe I should see if I have any VH pollen left to hit BlueGirl, or something else. I assume VH is diploid?)

Thanks for the quasi-validation! I should have just done a little more research on my own, I suppose. ;-)
Philip F.
[size=small][color=#669966]Zone 8 / Sunset Zn 30 (Austin, TX -- formerly New Orleans, LA)[/color][/size]

roseseek
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60048Post roseseek
Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:05 pm

You're welcome! One I tried repeatedly was to use Paloma Blanca with Doc in hopes of making a healthier Iceberg. Paloma Blanca HATED Encino so I sent it to Northern California, which it also hates. But, I still think it's an interesting idea needing some research... I'm using IXL pollen on Blue for You and a few others, BTW.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

andre carl
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Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:24 am
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60050Post andre carl
Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:51 pm

Here's a shocker: Paloma Blanca loves it here in Iowa. If I ever get my hands on some Doc pollen I'll try it out for you Kim.

roseseek
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60052Post roseseek
Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:06 pm

Not a shocker at all, Andre. It was bred for there, not the savannah nor northern California mountains where summer heat is extreme. I HOPE a pot I'm watching out back is one of the Docs I had. If not, just one more to add to Burling's list... That last minute rush and trying to cram everything possible into every opening possible in the trucks was the "perfect storm" to lose plants, tags, sanity... they will all eventually flower and some may even tell me who they are! Thanks!
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Don
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60058Post Don
Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 pm

Kim, where did you move to?
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

roseseek
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60065Post roseseek
Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:52 am

Hi Don, the Central California Coast, about an hour and a half north of Santa Barbara in the Santa Maria Valley. Beach climate without the congestion (OR pricing!), surrounded by year-round fresh produce. Quite a culture shock after 46 years in Los Angeles. Overcrowding makes people cannibalistic. There, if you made eye contact or spoke to many, you were treated suspiciously. People wondered what you wanted from them. Here, they are so NICE. Many gas stations have attendants, whether you're paying cash or credit, for the same price. I've never encountered drive through car washes with attendants who rinse and dry your car. It's kind of difficult to dart in and out of the stores quickly as even the clerks want to engage you. It wasn't common in Los Angeles to be taken to what you were looking for in a store, here it is. I joked with my Realtor (who remains in touch) that HAVING to actually interact with people wasn't part of the disclosure package.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

Don
Posts: 1844
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60076Post Don
Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm

That's funny. To hear you describe it, though, I thought you were above Frisco but I see on the map you're just outside the LA megalopolis. I guess is just means my mental map of California is even worse than I thought.

Are you now on level ground?
What doesn't kill them makes them stronger.

roseseek
Posts: 5003
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60106Post roseseek
Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:51 pm

BORINGLY level! LOL! Previously, there were six stories difference in elevation between the street level out front and the bottom of the property. Here, there is about a foot. Hauling plants, pots and soil in is SO easy compared to the previous story and a half of stairs and long distances. I back my truck up to the side gate, dump whatever it is on the dolly and drag it over the gravel to where it needs to go. Heaven! About twenty miles from the Pacific with the only thing really separating us from the ocean being town, farmland and Guadalupe Dunes, http://dunescenter.org/visit-the-dunes/ ... unty-park/, where Cecil B. DeMille built the sets for his 1923 film, The Ten Commandments, so there is a regular ocean breeze cooling (and wetting) things down. The sets weren't dismantled, but buried in the sands and are eroding to the surface. There are archaeological digs now to unearth the sets. Mildew and rust are supposed to be the main problems here and some is showing itself, but the plants had been so severely stressed, I'm not worrying about it yet.
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

andre carl
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:24 am
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60124Post andre carl
Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:51 pm

Kim,
It would be interesting to see how much you have to adjust your breeding goals because of the move. Maybe a good article to read (at least I'd read it). Actually I'm curious to read about any of the changes some of you migrating hybridizers have had to do because of the move. Maybe one day I'll move south and have to reconsider everything I do. I don't think I'll ever be able to handle anything more northern than where I am right now - I'm barely holding on. lol

roseseek
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Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:54 pm
Location: Zone 9b Central California, Sunset Zone 15
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Re: Your experiences with Hybrid "Musks"?

Post: # 60125Post roseseek
Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:14 pm

Thanks, Andre. There are and will be more "adjustments" made to accommodate the vastly different conditions. Cooler, damper, with amazingly more intense sun and UV levels. Don't worry, if you hang in there long enough, it appears your conditions will increasingly warm so you should find it "more southern" than ever before. Hopefully, you'll maintain some rainfall and ground water to go along with it, but not to the extent it would be like living in The Amazon! Good luck!
Kim
California Central Coast
USDA Zone 9b
Sunset Zone 15
Cooler inland coastal valley with strong marine influence

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