Identifying and filling niche markets

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Rob Byrnes
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68171Post Rob Byrnes
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:39 am

jbergeson wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:27 am
The large majority of my FIVI3 crosses didn't bloom, but there are a handful that have including a White Out x FIVI3 that seems very different than either parent and is quite compact. Congrats on your results with minis so far! It's always fun to find seedlings with excellent disease resistance and the characteristics we like.
Joe,

I have a bunch of FIVI3 seedlings and none of them have bloomed this first season except for one (PLTXSL) x FIVI3 that bloomed early and frequently. It's different from its siblings in that it is a micro mini and is nearly thornless. Disease resistance is average. I can't quite figure out yet if it's a FIVI3 hybrid or not. (PLTXSL) is Playtime x Solftlegs. I have another micro mini from Suntan Beauty x FIVI3. Awesome disease resistance and completely thornless but hasn't bloomed this first season.

I also had a number of Coco x FIVI3 seedings that were all smaller stature. great architecture and had miniature sized leaves. None had bloomed this first season and all but 2, I think, were disease prone. I'm down to 2 fairly resistant siblings. I'll continue to use FIVI3.

Lastly, I'm getting a number of miniatures using your (ATT x 11Z29) and in either direction.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

jbergeson
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68192Post jbergeson
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:25 pm

Rob, my reblooming F1's of FIVI3 also give me that same uncertainty of their parentage...they're just so different from the non-blooming seedlings.

It is a good idea to cross FIVI3 with miniatures. Most seedlings of FIVI3 are enormously vigorous, so it needs to be tempered with miniature genes.

I'm glad you are getting something out of the AAT x 11Z29. I might have another one or two related seedlings that might interest you. I'm rooting cuttings of a miniature yellow bred of uncertain parentage that has been doing fairly well. Could send in the fall or spring.

I can't believe how many roses you have crammed into your reportedly small yard. Red Dawn X Suzanne? What a monster. I dug mine out cuz it didn't seem to give rebloomers and it got spots.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68193Post Rob Byrnes
Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:54 pm

Joe,
lol My yard is small and a pot ghetto. I keep large shrubs like Red Dawn x Suzanne pruned to a reasonable size. I had my first repeat bloom on her this week. I'm not getting juvenile blooms in F1 from her though or even second season blooms so I'm not sure how much more effort I'll put into her.

After losing about half of my stock to the early thaws, rain and re-freeze that is late winter here in NJ, I decided last spring to work towards small shrubs and miniatures that are very hardy, can survive winter is a pot and are disease resistant. I'm seeing some of the results this season where at least one of the F1's parent is hardy to zone 2-3. A few of them have both parents that are that hardy. This spring I crossed those F1 to another parent that is hardy to zone 2-3 in hopes of increasing hardiness. For example I crossed your (AAT x 11Z29) with Campfire, Never Alone and Canadian Shield. For the most part I'm seeing great disease resistance as well. We'll see how many survive the winter culling this season.

In addition to your (AAT x 11Z29), I'm also actively using your (11Z29 x OP), (OTB x 11Z29) and (High Voltage x 11Z29). All of them have good resistance so far including FIVI3. If you have some things you want to send here feel free. The miniature yellow sounds interesting. Surviving your winters? Hopefully I'll have some things soon that you might want to test and that can survive your winters. How is Ruglauca doing and are you using it as a parent?

One interesting thing over the past couple seasons is the micro miniatures that I've been getting. The one (PTXSL) x FIVI3 has single blooms no bigger than a dime, tiny leaves and it doesn't look like it will get much bigger than 8-10". I'm thinking extremely hardy and resistant micros...a new path to follow. lol
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

jbergeson
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68195Post jbergeson
Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Rob,

Yeah, I'd toss RD x Suzanne if I were you.

Campfire and Never Alone get some quite severe spotting here. My Never Alone died out but maybe I didn't give it a good chance. Campfire survives well and passes on excellent rebloom and color saturation, but I'm definitely concerned about blackspot susceptibility. Isn't it odd how different roses perform differently in different areas of the country? With your high blackspot pressure I would have assumed Campfire would be bare sticks by the end of the summer.

Ruglauca is surviving in a very neglected part of the field. It has not really built itself up into a large shrub. I haven't been using it lately. I do believe it has some interesting potential, however. I have one large OP seedling that looks like a rugosa with light colored foliage and silver-pink blooms...that has built itself up into a 6-foot rounded shrub. I'm not sure if the light-colored foliage is due to chlorosis (which almost all rugosas can get around here) or is just the genetic color, or both.

I still have another OP Ruglauca that has very distinctive foliage...you had expressed interest in it but I don't think I ever rooted and sent any because it appears to be sterile and ended up getting blackspot if I remember correctly. Very cool foliage tho...I'll try to post a pic.

Rob Byrnes
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68205Post Rob Byrnes
Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:47 am

Joe,

I've been considering tossing RD X Suzanne for a while. All my F1 have yet to bloom after 2 seasons. Campfire and Never Alone get a wee bit of BS. It's not enough to bother me and I select resistant roses to pair up with them. So far, that's working for me. 95% of F1 are very healthy. I have a few where both of those are the parents together and the F1 are very healthy. I'm using Quadra, Canadian Shield, Ramblin Red and some others as a parent along with Campfire and NA.

I have Ruglauca in large pots and they don't get more then 3.5 feet tall. It sets OP hips more readily than with planned crosses. I used Ruglauca (diploid) pollen on R. glauca hoping for a tetraploid with glauca leaf color. The hips took so I'm assuming that pollen works. Ruglauca is 25% R. glauca so I'm really hoping to get some of that leaf color.

I have a few new Carmenetta F1 that have good leaf color and I'll be using them when they bloom to go after leaf color as well.

Next season I hope to be able to send you something of mine to test up there in your zone 3. Brrrrrrrr!!
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

mnemko
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68210Post mnemko
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:46 pm

I believe an inadequately tapped market are healthy HT-formed, floriferous microminis that would be windowbox plants--Like geraniums with form. The supermarket pot plants have no disease resistance but crossing them with small healthy shrubs such as Oso Easy Italian Ice and Flower Carpet Pink Perfection may yield such plants. This is mere conjecture because I've only resumed breeding, and with this goal, this season. I can say that both of the above seem to set seed well.
Marty Nemko
mnemko@comcast.net
510-655-2777

Rob Byrnes
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Re: Identifying and filling niche markets

Post: # 68214Post Rob Byrnes
Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:40 am

Marty,

I'm hoping that you are right that there is an inadequately tapped market for micro minis. What I'm looking for is parents that not only set seed well, which is important, but that are very disease resistant and cold hardy. I'd ultimately like to develop micros and miniatures that are hardy to zone 3. I don't think that's an impossible goal. I'm using some of the Canadian developed varieties, species and species hybrids. I've used Italian Ice this season as a seed parent and have lots of hips. Unfortunately it hasn't shown good disease resistance here.
Rob Byrnes

Historic Village of Roebling, NJ Zone 7a
On the right bank of the Delaware River

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