Alain Blanchard

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Re: Alain Blanchard

by Plazbo » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:46 pm

They all consistently have the issues that Ebb Tide has here, being sort of runty/lacking vigor with pretty meh blackspot resistance (leaves are great for a tiny while then it's back to being mostly bare sticks with the occassional yellow spotty leaf hanging around most of the year...on a positive ET refuses to die unlike others have so something positive in that). I'm sure most would probably cull them but I'm just letting them grow to see if any set hips. If any make fertile seed will start throwing Alain Blanchard and Helga Brauer pollen at them (non juvenile once bloomers being an easy tell of success) and then if there's fertility in those once blooming seedlings do a mass of sibling crosses for the 1 in 16 (1 in 32? one of those) that should have modern/juvenile rebloom while walking that 50/50, OGR/Modern line just to see what happens...probably won't be worse, probably won't be great either.

Re: Alain Blanchard

by roseseek » Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Interesting, thank you!

Re: Alain Blanchard

by Plazbo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:09 pm

Old thread but may be useful for someone at some point in the future
SimonV wrote:
Mon May 21, 2012 3:28 am
I was thinking a cross with something like 'Midnight Blue'/'Ebb Tide' *spits* might work for spotting as Jim mentioned once a few years back that he got spontaneous spotting from a MB seedling.
Can confirm

Ebb Tide x OP

It appears often enough to not be rare in OP seedlings. The spotting hasn't been super consistent like AB seems to be, but every bloom is spotted to some degree the way striped roses can sometimes be barely striped to very striped.

There is a slight chance it's coming from Helga Brauer which is near by, but given complete lack of any OGR qualities and the seedlings seeming to be entirely modern I'd assuming selfing.

Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:29 pm

@ Kim, on the flip side of the coin, I did LAUGH @ your comment.

Too funny Kim, keep up the good humor, it is NEEDED BADLY !!



Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:36 am

Ah yes, thank you for that Warren.

Re: Alain Blanchard

by SimonV » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:42 am

Relax! It's a seedling punnett *rolls eyes*

Re: Alain Blanchard

by Warren » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:30 am

Looks like a cow pat

Re: Alain Blanchard

by kim rupert » Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:14 am

You guys sure make awful looking fruitcakes down there! LOL!

Re: Alain Blanchard

by Warren » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:51 am

George, George!!! whats in the container?

Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:44 am

Absolutely contrary to what I started to do here (I often change my mind about things I have vowed to do.. LOL), yesterday I took stock of my situation and the fact is, this past season I ended up with such few seeds (under 50 achenes for the entire season's work LOL) and all came so very late in the season, I actually decided to use a few tricks I have up my sleeve to totally cut out the stratification time, so I get germinations NOW, not in spring when its gonna be too hot....

BUT I DO NOT intend to embryo on if interested, go to another thread if not interested LOL...

I have done this trick with Rosa gigantea seed, and got 2 seedlings from 6 seeds to germinate after a few weeks (no stratification of seed, testa intact and pericarps removed fully). That germination was done in the fridge @ 5 Celsius in a ziplock baggy / damp paper towelling, because that seed was received in our summer (Dec-Feb 2012) and it might not have germinated @ such high room temperatures as we were getting then.

I guess I could name this method *sowing true rose seed*.

The object in this instance, is to get germinations in the next few weeks, as opposed to spring if they were stratified commencing this late in our season here now (winter here is June-August).

Next season I hope to have too much seed collected at a much earlier time, and do the usual stratification thang...

Soooo, last night I removed the pericarps from these x14 Alain Blanchard achenes, and immediately sowed the resulting X10 fully intact true rose seeds in pure sand (i.e. testa fully intact but pericarps totally removed). Note, these have not cold stratified beyond ~ 15 days (so irrelevant time spent there).

Now that I have done the deed, I can confirm that these Alain Blanchard achenes had very dense pericarps and very tight sutures !!! Kinda reminded me of Rosa Canina type of seed...Based on that finding, I guess these might have germinated many many months from now the usual way (too close to hot season for my liking).

I am expecting all germinations to occur in the next few weeks NOW IN WINTER, they will be left to germinate @ room temp INSIDE the house (currently averaging 7-16 Celsius outside the house).

Here they are sown:

[attachment 887 Picture66.jpg]

Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:02 pm

Hi Karl,

These hips were left ripened on the bushes right through autumn, so I think that they got the warm stratification considering your comments above.

OK I'll keep them in the fridge.

Re: Alain Blanchard

by Karl K » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:37 pm


Gallicas were bred in England and France (and other places), so I doubt too much cold would be required. I'm willing to believe that the folks at the John Innes Institution (England) have a pretty good handle on germination techniques.

However, if the weather was warm while the hips were ripening, they might already have received all the warm after-ripening they need.


Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:20 pm

Thanks Karl,

I know there are sooo many ways to be doing this stratification thing, and there cannot be a single best answer.

The reason I am persisting to get some ideas here, is that gallica /centifolia-type seed is totally out of my domain, I have never germinated it, and I will likely stuff it up without specific advice....and this type of seed is pretty rare around my neck of the woods, so not many opportunities to be messing around with it.

My guess is that AB seed might need a lot of cold to lose its dormancy, a lot more cold that modern rose seed would require?? But since this seed is coming from a very warm location I also wonder if that counts to lessen the amount of cold it needs to lose sufficient dormancy?

Since receiving the AB seed yesterday, I have placed it at 5 celsius in damp peat moss and zip-lock baggy. Should I take it out and stratify it at room temp first? (RT = 8-18 celsius at the moment here in early winter)....??

Re: Alain Blanchard

by Karl K » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:00 pm

Rowley (1954) studied the problem of germinating seeds of Rosa canina, which often germinate over a period of several years.

"By piecing together the findings of these and other experiments it has been possible to formulate a general procedure by which seeds of Rosa canina can be persuaded to skip a year and germinate as well the first spring as it would, untreated, the second. This procedure has been adopted as a matter of course for all rose seed, hybrid or otherwise, at the John Innes Institution. The hips are harvested as soon as ripe in the autumn, opened without delay and the achenes cleaned out. They are stratified in tall pots ("long toms") of moist vermiculite, screened through an appropriate sieve so that the seeds can be sifted free with ease in the spring. Two or three layers can be included in one pot. The pots are then stood in a warm glasshouse for two months and then transferred to a refrigerator at approximately freezing point for a further two months. Care is taken to dampen the vermiculite so that at no time do they dry out completely. Finally the achenes are sifted out and sown in the normal way."

Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:21 am

OK, as no-one seemed to be entirely confident to answer the stratification Q (or maybe it was a dumb Q?), I am gonna place these in damp peat moss @ 5 celsius for 3 months. Then take stock of what has happened (hopefully germinations). If there are no germinations @ 3 months I might then continue that same cold stratification until there are one or two germinations, at which time I might sow the lot...right?

Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:07 am

AB x OP hips now ready for the job.

This many OP hips:

[attachment 826 1.jpg]

Gave this many achenes:

[attachment 827 2.jpg] for the danged waiting game !!


Re: Alain Blanchard

by kim rupert » Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:25 pm

I'm trying to find where it was discussed, but supposedly what has been used in Britain as "Californica", isn't what IS Californica here. I'm sure Tuscany Superb was used to create News, but there has to be quite a bit of "short hand" involved as there is no way it could be just one generation back. News is a very oddly beautiful floribunda. Strange foliage color and a rather "arthritic" growth to it. Not disrespecting it at all as I grew it for many years with zero results using it for seed and pollen. I love and still grow Lilac Charm, another self indulgence, but it will bring mildew into any resistant rose there is, so I use it very sparingly as I do Orangeade. I've even crossed the two of them to see what would happen. Pink, five petals, no fragrance, mildew, rust and black spot. Really made the blind man deaf with that one!

Trumpeter is spotted all over around here. Another fry your retina color (also here as an indulgence). I haven't used it for anything, just enjoy that saturated, neon color. I pushed all of those types together so Kordes Brilliant, Sevillana, Orangeade, Trumpeter, Glad Tidings, Show'n'Tell, Legend, Velvet Fragrance, the McGredy painters, Miracle on the Hudson, Lauren and others with that color saturation are all grouped at one end in what I refer to as 'the furnace'. I figure if it ever gets cold enough, I can stand in the middle of them to warm up! I didn't place them by "color" but by "saturation". Like Steven Wright when told he had mismatched socks on, "I didn't match them by color, but by thickness".

Re: Alain Blanchard

by kim rupert » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:52 pm

When this house was purchased in 1975, there was an enormous stand of escaped Manetti with a brilliant orange-red floribunda just holding on. It has lasted easily forty years in very dry, loose soil with gophers, moles and rabbits with occasional water. The red is Lili Marleen. It rusts and gets a bit of black spot, but I chalk that up to being constantly thirsty. Whacking the Manetti back, not to eliminate it because it really IS beautiful, but to encourage the LM to push herself back out, the rust is reducing and she's producing more of her brilliant color and much more wood. I don't know who produced her on Manetti, but the combination has produced a very tenacious combination. I can imagine that given much better care, she can be quite spectacular. The plant was never removed because it continued to perform acceptably with direct, intense, southern and western sun from noon until it sets, for the past 37 years. The combination eats enough prime real estate for two other plants, but she's earned her right to what she wants because of her longevity, tenacity and willingness to perform. I'm also using Manetti with some of the odd pollen as it showed itself willing to set viable hips, has tremendous fragrance and extremely lacy, beautiful sepals.

Re: Alain Blanchard

by gvarden » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:11 am

Now that makes two of us that love it !

Re: Alain Blanchard

by pacificjade » Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:09 am

I love Jubilee Celebration.

Austin has had some really bizarre crosses. He may have used it, unless it "offended" his aesthetics.